It’s both the environment and the level of skills needed in that environment. Bronze DofE should be in normal rural countryside – familiar and local to groups. For most of the RAFAC population that means well defined rights of way through farmland or woodland, which is a relatively benign, sheltered environment with good vehicle access. Dealing with getting lost or a typical casualty in this environment requires a lower level of skill. I’d agree many Cpls should have that level of skill, but many won’t, depending on their training and experience.
Dartmoor is a completely different environment and needs a significantly higher level of skills to avoid getting into a situation and to deal with the consequences if something does happen. Most staff don’t have the skills and experience required for this, let along cadets.
Err… So how do we manage to get cadets through there Bronze & Silver DofE, let alone Gold, if these Bronze level skills are so rare?
Are we, as an org, intellectually and psychologically unable to see how this skills transfer from an AT environment to any other (hilarious, because that’s why we do them…), or are we fiddling the DofE assesments?
Take Dartmoor out of it then - forest of Dean? Northumberland coastal path? Keilder forest?
I disagree - if you want to ask whether we should continue with staff cadets, or over 18 cadets, or this or that rank, then your starting point should be what is it you want to achieve?
Far too often in the ACO the thinking is limited to fiddling with processes in the hope that it will change things - it’s almost never done with a black sheet of paper as a starting point.
Decide what you want to achieve, then work out how to do it.
Just playing devils advocate, what if their local (and familiar) environment is wild country. Just looking at the map of squadrons there appears several that call Dartmoor home, I’m sure if I was to check the Lake District, North York Moors, Cairngorms etc there’d be examples there too.
We need to avoid cookie cutter, one size fits all mentality. Part of the beauty of this organisation is the diversity, we all do things that suit our environment while staying within the bounds set centrally (however increasingly restrictive and bureaucratic these are becoming).
Interesting dichotomy in the attitude to landscape - as @WOTB says - of you’re from Essex (Lincolnshire?) then hills and areas like Dartmoor are a big scary place.
But if you live in Newcastle then the Simonside hills and Keilder forest are places you go for picnics as kids. If you live anywhere in England north of Ashbourne in Staffordshire then you see 4/5/600 metre hills everyday, if you live in wales anywhere north of Pontypool you see the same.
My eldest, as a primary school pupil, when to a residential activity centre near Glasgow that would, apparently, cause the ACO to void it’s bowels…
Bringing it back to the topic rather than expectations of Cadet JNCOs.
The Staff Cadet / O18 jigsaw has been fiddled with quite a lot over the past few years…
Require Sgt to remain past 18
CWOs able to remain to 22
Reduction to 20 for all
Removal of O18 rank requirements
Requirement to “Add Value”
Blended Staff / Cadet
Is this something the current Comdt will review (again) or will he allow it to remain as is currently and leave it for the next person to look at it?
It’s a popular topic for ACC as often becomes a thread drift so clearly many views on this across the org.
Bin uniformed cadet service at 18 for all the legal/aggro reasons we all know.
Staff/helper/CI adult service for ex-cadets at 18. I’m much more interested in those who are at Uni or have jobs, and who want to help in surge activities like Sqn/sector camps and exercises than in 18yo’s who would be there every week.
Bin one of either FS or CWO ranks. Too much pressure to start promoting Cpl’s early so they’ve a chance of getting to CWO.
It’s interesting that there’s another active thread discussing pilot training for cadets that states an age range of 18-19 year old, for accommodation considerations; whilst here we’re debating cutting upper age limits to 18…
A conundrum, do we want “undervalued” adults as cadets or stop the potential access to solo powered flight?
If staff cadets are used wisely they can be beneficial to units and in return we provide opportunities not readily available to non cadets. However, as discussed throughout this thread are not developed or utilised correctly IMHO
I’d have more junior ranks (as previously posted) and have SNCO ranks for O18s only, allowing them to become uniformed staff, retaining their rank, at 20.
We could still have DE at sgt and APO levels, but with no compulsion to be a ‘civilian’ first.
I think we should seriously consider ditching the ‘civilian’ branding of non -uniformed instructors and welfare committees as well. We’re all civilians (with the exception of regular SIs) and labelling certain people ‘civilian’ who might be ex-regulars, retired RAFVR(T) officers, reservists, etc, and therefore no more civilian than those in uniform is very odd.
I would argue that given the miniscule proportion of cadets who will go solo in a powered aircraft, it’s not something we should put resources into.
I’d rather 20 cadets go solo in a glider than one goes solo in a powered aircraft.
I’d rather 200 cadets get a weekend in Snowdonia than 10 get a week in Austria.
If stuff is available on a free/little cost basis - for example the old week long course/experience with the RAF mountaineering centre at Grantown-on-Spey - then the ACO should grab it with both hands, but interms of paying big wedges for stuff, the spend should be as universal as possible.
Its interesting that this has risen its head- timely indeed. Word has it that cadet service above the age of 18 is under review again and likely to be scrapped. I cant be the first to have heard this over the past two months Shirley?