The Role of a Staff Cadet and the Upper Age Limit

hmmmm

the example i speak of is driving myself to a RBL event, say a training course or a conference, or even a Parade or unfortunately a funeral.

this may only be 15-25miles away but i am permitted to claim for that mileage.
I am only transporting myself, so not providing a service to the charity, no one is benefiting from the transport i am providing (ie no passengers) other than the outcome that I arrived at the destination and my presence is in attendance.

following the link offered by @Moist_Van_Lipwig i have found the following

Insurers who do not charge extra for volunteer driving - A list of car insurers and their position on volunteer driving

so it would seem my current insurer (eSure) I am fine to not tell them - but it doesn’t answer the question.

if receiving mileage in return for a journey driven on a volunteer basis is business insurance required or it is all amalgamated into the volunteering role and insurance companies will put the knowledge of that ahead of receiving an “out of pocket expense”

If I’ve read that document correctly, then it would seem that if you’re claiming milage, then you are engaged on the charity duties (regardless of the purpose of the trip - that’s for the charity to decide).

From that list, it would seem that all of the insurers require a minimum of a ‘Social, Domestic & Pleasure’ policy to be covered for volunteer driving.

I would hazard a guess that business use is imposed on us is either because the MOD don’t understand that volunteers are not the same as regular personnel, or that the higher cover levels required (£20,000,000 rings a bell).

Yes, it’s the law!

Most insurance companies will insure for either social, domestic and pleasure (SDP) or SDP and commuting - using a car for business or charity use may not be covered by those and therefore mean you’re not properly insured. Hence why you should check with the insurer.

One thought though would be…
What do these insurance companies define as volunteering?

Taking some people out for the day etc I would assume but what if your transporting weapons to a range day, Would they cover that under volunteering?

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Ask them!

Appologoes I wrote that wrongly…

That’s what I was meaning I would not take that list where it says you don’t need to inform them if you are using it for volunteering

I would speak to them and ensure i was covered for everything i was doing for the cadets.

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i suspect it would be easier for them to define that it would be for HQAC!
#employeenotemployee

Yes, I agree with you regards the being treated as an adult staff member one moment and then treated as a cadet the next? It’s confusing…
I’m wondering also, about safeguarding issues… do CWO’s have to be fully Safeguarding Trained? For example if an adult male officer who is unknown to your Squadron was in a room with all female cadets (door closed) would it be acceptable to leave a female CWO in the room as a safeguarding measure? Or would an adult female officer need to be present?

They have to do The same AVIP as any other staff, and can be treated as part of the ratio provided they’re not the sole staff member (I think…)

The officer bit of the staff member is irrelevant in that situation. Common sense says just leave the door open, if that absolutely can’t happen then that to me seems acceptable, happy to be corrected by others though.

Providing that they have consented, Staff cadets may act as the sole members of staff present for some activities. Eg A bag packing event may be staffed entirely by staff cadets.They can also be included in the supervisory ratios for most general supervisory numbers.

They can not run a parade night on their own, and they cannot be the sole overnight supervisor.

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Any source or is that just an unsubstantiated rumour?

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As per ACP20 i believe.

Its a difficult one with the whole staff cadet ideology. In our organisation all staff cadets regardless of rank are in a halfway house. Realistically bearing in mind of some of the above comments 2 options are there.

  1. Keep it as it is. Utilise staff cadets as and when needed, this will mean you have the benefits of some things but you have to be realistic. I was a CWO and knew there was a dividing line, I used myself as a mentor to my NCO team and also did tasks as required by staff

  2. End the cadet title at 18 - the organisation would be for 12-18 year olds ,at 18 cadets would have the opportunity to become staff in the same way that they do at 20 now, maybe there would need to be mentoring/thought process put in place i.e. do you insist on Acting Sergeant/Pilot officer for 2 years rather than 1.

In the 2nd example, you would get rid of the need for staff cadet separation from cadets and CFAV which would make accommodation requirements easier. The downside you would probably lose the CWO rank.

I suppose in summary you can’t have both, you either a cadet with some staff responsibilities and the ability to count towards some ratios or you aren’t a cadet and have full staff responsibilities

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This is the wording of ACP 20 on the matter.

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I see this spouted regularly and don’t understand why. The role of the rank may change but the rank need not. CCF have coped for years with CWO not needing to be 18, and have allowed many an individual to take the rank they are capable of without holding them back on an age limit.
The ACF also seem to do just fine having warrant officer ranks for their cadets,

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I suppose for our organisation the role of CWO has massively changed over the last 10-15 years, it used to be a Wing appointed Squadron role now its very much a Wing appointed + where there is alot more involvement with WIng events etc.

In theory there isn’t stopping anyone going for it at any age I would say 16+ if the removal of 18+ staff cadets or could it be the case anyway, if you are good enough then age doesn’t matter?

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It might require some sleight of hand but we could have someone appointed as an adult Sgt (substantive rank) but have the honorary rank of CWO to recognise that they have reached the pinnacle of the cadet career.

We’d then have to have a process for them to leave that honorary WO rank and revert to plain old Sgt.

The ACF have CSM/RSM appointments but I think the underlying cadet ranks are Cadet WO? Maybe one of the ACF folk on here can clarify. My local ACF don’t have anyone above SSgt right now.

That isn’t quite right. In the Army, the ranks are WO2 and WO1 with SSM, BSM, CSM, RSM, GSM, etc, all being appointments. In the ACF the ranks are Cadet Sgt Maj and Cdt RSM, with the adult equivalents being Sergeant Major Instructor (SMI) and RSMI respectively.

Ok. So are CSM/RSM actual cadet ranks rather than appointments? Our local company certainly has a CSM, but they’re not on the local detachment.

Appreciate the staff ranks are entirely different.

Turns out the rank is actually Cadet CSM rather than Cdt Sgt Maj as I previously stated. It might have been because we were a Guards company in a county where one of the other ‘companies’ was a squadron (due to having a cavalry capbadge) that we dropped the ‘company’ part of the title and acted as though CSM stood for Cdt Sgt Maj.

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