Yes, Sets the standard across all shooting.
Standard range delivery, standard Lesson format, standard WHT format.
So when cadets move between Air Rifle and L98 (Which the do), the expectations are there.
It wonât happen. Air rifles are not used by any other part of the armed forces so itâs not part of SASCs daily business.
they have no interest in the cadet world, itâs why the original WHT for the L144 was a lazy copy & paste of the L98 (which is why a bolt action rifle had an action of âease springsâ)
Sadly, I suspect that the SASC would prefer not to have to deal with cadet shooting at all.
1 Like
While I agree with this to a point, Iâd argue the speed and accessibility benefits of having different systems of training for air rifle vs L98 (on the basis those are the only two that matter now) would outweigh the benefit of a single system.
2 Likes
Itâs possible to have different attitudes towards relative risks within the same training system. For example: drill rounds, blank rounds, ball ammunition, and tracer are not all treated the same.
Got it in one.
An AR RCO should be able to brief / trg new cadets on the safety requirements. Can the WHT for AR.
The Scouts have a much, much simpler pathway for AR shooting.
While we are at it, bin RSDs for air rifle - or make a repetitive one feasible - any parade night covered for a specific period (say one month as minimum). That would allow maximum flexibility - no shooting planned, drill / outside leadership tasks cancelled due weather, (or late non-availability of CFAV instructor for teaching, whatever), open up the range.
Oh, while we are at it #2, bin the requirement for an ammo orderly for pellets!! One of the most useless task aspects in RAFAC!
If we have to be forced down this route (AR + L98 only), at least make it much simpler for all.
2 Likes
Make it so - go independent on AR - make the safety standards to the NSRA requirements, such as using breech flags.
3 Likes
The requirement is there, but nothing to say the Medic canât double hat. especially on a small indoor range. Just needs to be able to control ammo in the event of a range incident, and be an agreed way forward with the PO and SPO.
As an SPO and Shooting Officer, can you assure me that the planning process has been carried out?
If its, âweâll shoot on a night, sometime this monthâ thats not part of the planning process.
If its, âwe plan on shoot on Tuesday, however ive got to move it to thursdayâ Thatâs different, and covered in CT-R
This is my concern. As a Wing we already struggle with a small number of SAAIs. The course is too much of a committment for most volunteers especially if you already help across other programme areas. Theres no way the increased scale can work without more trained staff.
I know lots of staff who would happily train and test for air rifle but donât want to get involved in L98 shoots. Our wing L98 shoots are over an hour travel each way for me to support whereas air rifle I can support much more locally.
Lets hope the negative of removing weapon systems is balanced by a positive review of training requirements.
2 Likes
The medic for many ranges is normally doing admin work, etc - but in very close proximity. Bin the ammo orderly (pellets are not live ammunition), then you can run a range with just the RCO if necessary.
Move to the Scout pathway - much simpler.
An AR range in a sqn will typically have the same personnel with no changes to a range set-up. The planning process is the same, regardless. There is no logical reason why a âmonthlyâ RSD couldnât be accepted. After all, what changes are there in an RSD typically? SMS event number, date of shoot & date of range recce. If an sqn is fortunate enough to have more than one, then the RCO name might change. All of these are very simple to take into account.
âI plan to shoot at least twice a month but circumstances change at short notice.â
Letâs make things simpler.
3 Likes
Which is exactly why I was under the impression medic canât be ammo orderly on any range? If there is an incident requiring medical treatment, the medic then canât look after the ammo!
In fact, Iâm pretty sure on my cat bleeds course they said very specifically if weâre there as medic e should not be responsible for anything else. Minor admin stuff is obviously fine.
We are not talking a 10 position barrack (or outdoor) range, with semi-automatic rifles.
Look at a very simple 2 or 3 position AR range, using pellets. This is a markedly different situation. The RCO can easily control an incident / ammunition - bearing in mind that some sqns will be using multi-shot AR. APPLY SAFETY CATCHES, LAY RIFLES DOWN, STAND CLEAR.
Control achieved.
Make it simpler, not harder.
4 Likes
I suppose if someone pinched some pellets itâs not exactly a disaster compared to someone pinching 5.56!!
You can buy pellets very easily online anyway. Itâs a very different ball game.
2 Likes
I can also put a tin of pellets in my chest pocket.
(To retain control of them during an incident)
One of our cadets mentioned that - as they also shoot a parentâs air rifleâŚâŚ
We really are making a mountain out of a non-existent molehill.
Itâs copy / paste across of too many items without considering the requirements / ramifications.
3 Likes
Please take all ideas for improvement to your wing/region shooting officers.
They can take forward to TG5.
2 Likes
People can just fill out the change request form on Sharepoint and it comes to my team.
We then review them with TG5 as part of our 6 monthly changes.
None of the above is new though and things weâve asked for in the past and SASC say no.
1 Like
Back on of the original ammo store manâs course we were told to (& I think the regulations in acp26) said at the time that air rifle pellets should be treated the same as other ammunition namely in appropriate containers on a pallet in an alarmed store separate to other ammo.
I think whatâs really hampered shooting is the application of explosive transport regs & the expectation to treat .22RF like it had the same explosive mass & hazard as they were the anti tank bar mines stolen from that train.
Such a shame we no longer have Constance any more. Always seemed to have an interest in pushing & promoting shooting even if she was a bit of a handbrake at times.
HAHAHAHA, having worked closely with constance and the new TG5 for many years you donât realise how little work was done then compared to now. Itâs a different world now and to draw any comparison isnât fair.
Would this not be a RASP for the same range & staff, just different dates?
For AR, break away from SASC. They were the numpties that came up with carying the L144 (if raining) with the bolt closed.
It needs a fundamental change of thinking to allow progressive (but safe) AR shooting. Streamline processes - it will be a disaster if we donât - loads of AR kit & no ability to use it.
2 Likes