Sack off the L144A1s, and the JSP armoury requirements.
Spend the money on air rifles and Shotguns.
Keep L98A2 shooting as is, but allow L103s to be stored at AR Centres, rather than hold them on RAF bases.
Oh, and move away from the SASCs input on sport weapons, like the Air Rifle…
Never gonna happen
I like the idea but I don’t think binning off small bore is the way to go. Small bore is a really good stepping stone to full bore shooting.
Some Cadets don’t need that stepping stone, but others really do. It can be a very important confidence builder.
The alternative I would like to see is either a .22 conversion kit or a full .22 version of the L98.
.22 conversion would get my vote. It is rumoured.
I’d like to see AR centrally purchased and funded, rather than local purchase. If that came at the expense of the CSBTR, I could live with that.
I completely agree. I also like the L144 - but not as a cadet weapon.
I just think we’re heading for a point where the cost of the activity is much greater than the perceived benefit - all it takes is someone at the MOD to unthinkingky update the JSP, and before you can say “recall”, the L144s will be back at the parent station.
we’re getting a bit shooting techy now and further off topic but…
…before the pandemic i went to an air rifle training day and i think it was the CZ200 air rifle which the instructor was saying is a great stepping stone for L98A2.
being magazine fed it follows the same/very similar drills (load, ready, fire etc) whereas the Scopion Air Rifle was much more 0.22 orientated.
i suppose it all depends where you want to go (and with AR you have) but there are AR which ideally set up a Cadet for either
the target shooting (competition) single shot route (AR>0.22>7.62)
or the more “military” approach with magazines (AR.5.56)
the point i am making is for that unit who was leading the instructing, they said having a magazine AR like the CZ200 and then going to the L144 then to L98A2 the small-bore was a hindrance as it was a new set (single shot style) of drills to learn.
I have never been on a unit with AR on and so believe that small bore does play a part in teaching the MM principles. but if someone has AR in place of L144 i don’t see what the benefit is to go to L144 unless the Cadet is keen on single shot target shooting over a magazine fed weapon system
(ie i don’t feel L144 is necessary if AR experience is held for L98A2, however L144 definitely has a place regardless of AR experience prior to L81A2)
Personally I think the drills in Cadet Shooting went the wrong way, we have shoehorned L98 weapon drills into air rifle and small bore with L81 being the only weapon system with different drill, I think we should’ve used L91 drill last for air rifle and small bore with only L99 being different.
I have been running air rifle for a number of years both single shot and magazine fed on the Scorpion. I find quite a few Cadets are terrified of that step upto full bore and that they like to live fire something else first. If that option didn’t exist kits would choose not to progress from air rifle. (That being said I would oppose making it a mandatory step as many an age to go straight from air rifle to L98 with no issue).
i both agree and disagree.
i hate how we’ve “militarised” what is a a “toy” weapon anyone can purchase and use without any need for training or controls.
but contrary to that like how AR sets up the basics of weapons handling and range commands for when it really matters.
Been removed from almost everywhere now, very unlikely to happen unless re-engineered.
The ACF I think have basically decided teh L144 doesnt exist and are just doing air rifle with their people then straight on to L98. Their justification for shooting allows this a bit better than ours.
You lose half the experience as it ends up like shotgun where they have little control of the weapon and things like MMSP go out the window so it actually makes the swap to full bore harder. What we need to enable is better and quicker movement for CFAVs to train on air rifle.
So do I (with myself) as we move towards more and more use of Magazine fed air rifles it does make sense. But when it first came in it was stupid, we should’ve gone breach flags etc for Air Rifle and certainly .22.
In the world of unlimited budget a dedicated .22 L98 would be amazing, never gonna happen though.
I feel we need a topic split.
On the subject of ammo, a few years back I put my paperwork in for a wing level shooting camp, and got it bounced.
“Nope, you can’t have that… Maybe a 1/4?”
After come careful negotiation, I was able to secure 6 boxes of 5.56 (5400 Rnds), to be run on 4 ranges over two days…
Was told then, that the budget was 20 Rnds per cadet.
My old Sqn used to shoot air rifles in the days before there was a pamphlet and defined WHT. I didn’t notice any lack of control back then 
The SASC have written a pamphlet based on what they know - Infantry weapons, rather than sporting rifles. If the SASC method is so good, why haven’t they written the L82 Pam…?
They have little control in the sense of they don’t learn the drills in a progressive manner for the L98/other service rifles, as the NSRA route doesn’t teach them in the same way.
SASC wrote the pamphlet based on consultation of how to make the air rifle progressive on to the other service rifles, it’s done in consultation with the ACF and RAFAC so they aren’t solely to blame for the way things are.
Whereas what would’ve been more logical is to write the Air Rifle and L144 so that the drills are progressive to the L81, so that the 3 bolt action rifles all feed into each other.
The mag AR drills would then break that as they do more relevantly feed into L98 drills - you just create the opposite problem.
APC18 has been updated, apparently, only 2 air rifles are listed (Scorpion and something else, sorry appreciate that isn’t that helpful). We’ve been told to wait out on buying any new ones to see if that position shifts to allow others.
We are looking to get shooting back as soon as we can but what that looks like once staff are all re qualified etc we shall see.
I had been told that there was a safety case for not having break-barrel air rifles.
CZ200 is the other, or was!
Arrrrghhhhh!! SASC have written drills as if all single shot rifles are wpns of war.
The different rifle drills are not linked, & also they do not relate to any corresponding aspects of “civilian” tgt shooting. For example, breech flags would work (safely) for all 3 types - & until the drills were published for the Scorpion, breech flags were certainly used by us. As to having a rifle left “safe” with the bolt closed (or firing off an air rifle twice to prove clear), don’t even start!
Air rifle should be seen as a simple system (as for the Scouts) - no WHT, no pre-authorisation required to run a range.
#BringBackGPMG
Look up the SECR on Sharepoint. If you were to buy air rifles then the CZ or BSA in the pamphlets would be the best buys.