I suspect that they are considered to be somewhat independent. This explains RAF Syerston not being known as RAFAC Syerston.
No different to a RAuxAF unit being on a RAF station.
I’m of the view, pending other insights, that they’re units of the ATC.
The CCF haven’t created any gliding squadrons to the best of my current knowledge and while it isn’t definitive, the fact that appointees are ATC unless already in the CCF supports that.
Who has operational command / control doesn’t necessarily indicate the organisation the VGSs are from.
RAuxAF units don’t cease to be RAuxAF because they (or elements of them) answer to A non-RAuxAF element. And they all come under the RAF eventually in terms of direction, even though we have a separate director general.
Same for UASs, which are in the RAFVR.
All that to say I see no reason why they’d be anything other than ATC.
If they were RAF, they’d be entitled to an RAF unit badge — they have an ATC one, just with a different colour because they actually fly (I assume).
Does noone at the college of arms know why the badges are unique?
What about AGS’? 
Not entitled to a badge.
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I think VGS have a weird cross over due to history.
Old VGSs namely those with WW2 heritage can use the same badge as regular RAF sqns with the standard crown & blue circlet. Some were granted official badges reflecting this.
“New” VGS who weren’t previously granted a badge use the astral crown.
The old legacy VGS still can use their old badges as their formation hasn’t changed albeit they member organisation has.
This isn’t correct. It’s just a legend that has developed. It only takes one person to make stuff up like this and then it’s adopted as fact.
Also not correct I’m afraid.
Fair enough but the more I read about the VGS the more it appears that they aren’t part of the Air Cadets but a different chain of command even if their staffing comes from the air cadets.
If they are formally part of the RAF & not RAFAC would they not get the same as an RAF Sqn rather than what is done for ATC units?
Simple question - do VGSs fall under the command of commandant Air Cadets?
But op con and op com aren’t the same.
We’re all in the Air Cadets but the ATC are commanded by an FTRS air cdre. The CCF are administered differently and have a different chain of command.
None of that changes their organisation.
Air Experience Flights are also not entitled to badges — they serve the air cadets and come under UASs.
It’s all very complicated.
VGSs are cadet units staffed by cadets and cadet staff, existing to serve cadets.
The only reason they have 2FTS oversight is because they have the SQEP to oversee this RTL activity with the high level of assurance and training etc. We don’t get the shooting specialists claiming links to the RAF Regt, even though they’re the only ones authorised to train RAF personnel in the parent service.
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Unless things have changed very recently, 2FTS comes under HQAC, whereas 6FTS comes under RAFC Cranwell (oddly not the Directorate of Flying Training, but I guess that’s because UASs do more than flying training now).
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That’s the bit I wasn’t sure about.
That’s what makes it weird when people try to claim they come under the RAF with an implication they’re outside the reach of HQ RAFAC.
From wiki:
This seems to insinuate that their situation is akin to the relationship between CCF and ATC & RAFAC - admin under RAFAC, but this is conflicted by the RAF’s website (and every other source)
What are the citations though? I can go and change that to what I think is correct, it doesn’t make it right.
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Exactly. That’s my point - only source that claims this. Should’ve made it clearer
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In many ways, 2FTS is like another region within the RAFAC, headed by a FTRS(?) OF5. It’s just focussed on a specific output, rather than a geographical purview.
AIUI the VGSs were moved under 2FTS which itself is part of 22 Gp not the ACO (as it was then) when AOC Air Cadets (regular) became Comdt Air Cadets (FTRS). Recent CACs have not been SQEP to be risk holders for flying activities.
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(I may be wrong on the timeline though)
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That’s how I always saw it, before the upheaval of the status quo brought forth by this thread
Swapping the thread as it is more pertinent here.
With Lord Lt cadets there is normally one appointed from each cadet organisation CCF, SCC, ACF & ATC
However the rebranding means that this is often incorrectly listed as that you have a Lord Lt cadets from “RAFAC”.
This causes confusion when the CCF cadet is from CCF(RAF).
you then have two from RAFAC but only one from the ATC.
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