That isn’t actually true.
[quote=“talon” post=12014][quote=“Racing Stick” post=11920]
Well in fear of being ridiculed again for mentioning my former life. On Trooping the Colour, as soon as the Officer on Parade (in this case Her Most Gracious Majesty, The Queen Elizabeth) arrives, all orders during the parade are given facing her.
[/quote]
That isn’t actually true.[/quote]
[quote=“zinggy” post=12022][quote=“talon” post=12014][quote=“Racing Stick” post=11920]
Well in fear of being ridiculed again for mentioning my former life. On Trooping the Colour, as soon as the Officer on Parade (in this case Her Most Gracious Majesty, The Queen Elizabeth) arrives, all orders during the parade are given facing her.
[/quote]
That isn’t actually true.[/quote]
[/quote]
What about the “Eyes Front” for starters? 
[quote=“talon” post=12014][quote=“Racing Stick” post=11920]
Well in fear of being ridiculed again for mentioning my former life. On Trooping the Colour, as soon as the Officer on Parade (in this case Her Most Gracious Majesty, The Queen Elizabeth) arrives, all orders during the parade are given facing her.
[/quote]
That isn’t actually true.[/quote]
Are you alleging that Racing Stick is a Trooping the Colour Walt?
[quote=“noah claypole” post=12025][quote=“talon” post=12014][quote=“Racing Stick” post=11920]
Well in fear of being ridiculed again for mentioning my former life. On Trooping the Colour, as soon as the Officer on Parade (in this case Her Most Gracious Majesty, The Queen Elizabeth) arrives, all orders during the parade are given facing her.
[/quote]
That isn’t actually true.[/quote]
Are you alleging that Racing Stick is a Trooping the Colour Walt?
;)[/quote]
No, just that many orders are in fact given facing away from the Queen!
Now this where a “in between the lines” manual would be useful, rather than saying in my day and when I did this course or this how we’ve always done it on our squadron.
How hard would it be for the CWO and ATF to produce a squadron guide to drill answering most of the questions that 818 doesn’t?
I’m afraid all orders given to the CP, EttC, Nos. 1 to 7 Guard, MBHD, Cav and KTRHA are given facing the Queen unless permission to do so is different.
As I mentioned, I didn’t want to speak of a former life but watching it on TV isn’t quite the same as doing three. But hey, I’m a Walt so how would I know.
Laughable.
[quote=“Racing Stick” post=12102]I’m afraid all orders given to the CP, EttC, Nos. 1 to 7 Guard, MBHD, Cav and KTRHA are given facing the Queen unless permission to do so is different.
As I mentioned, I didn’t want to speak of a former life but watching it on TV isn’t quite the same as doing three. But hey, I’m a Walt so how would I know.
Laughable.[/quote]
At the risk of taking the thread wildly off topic, right form/form three ranks and order for the march past and all given facing the guards, not the Queen. I might not have taken part in trooping the colour but I have seen it and can see which way a horse is pointing!
Probably a lot harder than first thought.
The RAF tend not to suffer the same issues because the way of doing things is more easily passed down.
AP818 is very much a ‘best practice guide’ and DIs are well trained to interpret it.
Unanswered questions and typos are easily dealt with by using their brains or by simply refering to the precedents set by their instructors and seniors.
They are trusted to make such decisions.
The ATC has a few specific problems in this area.
-
People want a specific hand-holding guidance in written form which will apply 100% of the time. This is rarely feasible.
One only needs to look at the way people blindly attempt to follow what are obviously errors in AP818, simply because they insist things must be ‘by the book’, to see how flawed such an approach is. -
DIs are not trained to the same standard and there often isn’t the same level of experience.
Many of those with time served expreience are of the ‘old and bold’ variety who were either taught outdated drills or (in many cases) incorrect drills and are sometimes unwilling to update, or worse, unwilling to consider that they could even be wrong.
As the current version of AP818 is a relatively new introduction to the Corps, those who do have a level of experience with it may be considered by some to be ‘too young to be right’ when they contradict the old ways.
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There are too many DIs who over-value their skills, knowledge, and experience.
We’ve all seen new, green, DIs, lacking any real knowledge, come back with the big “I’m a DI!” impression of themselves. Some carry that impression with them over the years without making any attempt to further their development.
This does nothing to promote continuous improvement. -
Even when the correct/most sensible way of doing things is pointed out to people, many simply ignore it.
On an RAF station it’s far easier for the SWO to keep control of such matters because everyone is there.
In an ATC Wing, once the WWO (or other person) has left a Squadron how can they ensure that the old and bold OC won’t simply go back to piping in a haggis every second Thursday, whilst the cadets present arms with No8 rifles, wearing ceremonial sashes; or insist that every member of the Squadron salute his empty desk when arriving?
It’s much harder. The only way to solve such problems would be to rein in, or cull every moron in the organization - with staff numbers a problem as it is we might then end up a little thin on the ground.
We used to do, (and still do i suppose) have the officer approach from whatever direction they came from, the compliment would be paid the NCO (cadet of staff) would maintain postition at the front facing the squadron. the CO would do her bit and then once the finnished she would take up postion on the right of the NCO tell them to “send em home” if she was staying the NCO would bring the sqn to attension give the command “officer on parade, DIS MISS” the sqn would right incline and salute, the NCO would do a right turn and salute the officer. the officer remains facing the sqn and returns the salute. the sqn marchs three paces and breaks step and the NCO about turns and 3 paces and breaks step, while the CO Bimbles off back to the office
As far as I can make out from what your saying is it is being done wrong (but I have had to read it a few times I was getting a bit confused) the CO shouldnt move to the side of anyone when the CO takes over the NCO should march to the rear the only time anyone should be at the front and to the side is if you have two officers on final.
[quote=“Racing Stick” post=12102]As I mentioned, I didn’t want to speak of a former life but watching it on TV isn’t quite the same as doing three. But hey, I’m a Walt so how would I know.
Laughable.[/quote]
My bold - What’s stopping you? It hasn’t bothered you before?
Lovely bite though - and I wasn’t even fishing! :lol:
Keep on topic chaps. Less of the name slinging and more of the drill please!
[quote=“talon” post=12127][quote=“Racing Stick” post=12102]I’m afraid all orders given to the CP, EttC, Nos. 1 to 7 Guard, MBHD, Cav and KTRHA are given facing the Queen unless permission to do so is different.
As I mentioned, I didn’t want to speak of a former life but watching it on TV isn’t quite the same as doing three. But hey, I’m a Walt so how would I know.
Laughable.[/quote]
At the risk of taking the thread wildly off topic, right form/form three ranks and order for the march past and all given facing the guards, not the Queen. I might not have taken part in trooping the colour but I have seen it and can see which way a horse is pointing![/quote]
Well, that’s because he is the BOiW and is giving parade orders and not orders directed to the RO which after all is what this was about. Anyway, you’re boring now.
Racing Stick, you are quite right to be proud of your past. But
sits uncomfortably with your profile photo…
As someone already pointed out some people get flustered when not everything is written down and can be acted out verbatim. In particular we need to understand that not everything can be done by the book due to number of cadets vs RAF Squadron, number of officers vs RAF Squadron, parade square etc.
Ladies and Gentlemen I give you the opening paragraph of the drill manual:
AP 818, Chapter 1
OBJECT OF THE MANUAL
- The purpose of the manual is to set out the correct procedures for RAF drill and
ceremonial. The only drill movements which are to be taught in the Service are those laid
down in this manual. Exceptions to this ruling can be made when operating on a Dual or Tri-
Service parade when the traditions of the senior Service take precedence. Additionally it may
be necessary to modify some of the procedures for ceremonial contained in this publication
having regard to the size of the parade area, the number of personnel available and the time
allowed for rehearsals. Limited variations to drill movements may be authorised exclusively
for use by The Queen’s Colour Squadron.
My Bold.
I about turn from the officer before giving the order to dismiss because invariably I am only 1 to 2 paces away from them and I don’t think they would appreciate it. If I was on a larger parade ground, I would be at least 6 paces. I have never had an issue with this.
I do have an issue with people who think that every order must be given facing the squad, parade etc and is one of the common faults I see on NCO courses.
I am a firm believer that if it looks smart, uses correct drills and is done within the spirit of the manual then we are doing the best we can.
[quote=“tmmorris” post=12502]Racing Stick, you are quite right to be proud of your past. But
sits uncomfortably with your profile photo…[/quote]
tmmorris: My sarcasm goes back to another thread. Apologies if you took it the wrong way.
'S the problem with online. No problem.