Hence why I’m saying it’s to do with the people, not the rank.
If they’re good enough for Corporal, give them Corporal. Within any promotion is a probation period, see how they develop and progress, as well as react to the training they’ll be given.
And then they’re also not doing it with one hand tied behind their back.
Think we’re basically agreed on the main point though. No need to fix what isn’t broken.
Nah, if you must have one below Cpl, give them a LAC or SAC (Leading/Senior Air Cadet). Mirrors parent service and can distinguish between NCOs and more senior cadets who can take charge if need be.
There is a decent idea. Not bad at all.
We already have leading and senior though, wouldn’t that confuse things?
And the parent service does have L/Cpls, albeit in a limited sense.
Issue is it is not a rank as such, but a classification. For desired effect it would need to be on a rank slide.
That is how cadets visually differentiate NCOs and Cadets.
They decided to bring in Master classifications, they can jiggle around with it. Or make the senior classification into that rank.
And in my 8 years in I still haven’t encountered a non-army LCpl.
What abour combining the classification system into the rank structure. Using experience, skills and knowledge to combine the two. A rough blue sky thinking idea below
Junior Cadet - newbie
First Class - Mentor to the newbies.
Leading (Corporal) - general control of cadets
Senior (Lead Corporal/Sergeant) - Flight Commander. Duty NCO Role
MAC (Sgt/FS) - Senior Role within Sqn. Duty SNCO
Instructor Cadet (CWO) - Senior NCO on Squadron. Support staff team in a role.
They brought it in after I left, so I never encountered one either, but they’re out there… Somewhere…
It is, but with 2 things called the same there’s a risk of confusion.
Just make that into the LAC rank, kill two birds with one stone. LAC doesn’t mean anything in the RAF anyway, just means you’ve somehow scrapped through the 60% pass mark of training.
And yeah I get the confusion side of things. I’ve got a friend who works in ATC and is an SI in the ATC. Can’t keep on top of it.
I’d counter that the only reason the RAF has “senior” SACs is because they would have to pay them more as LCpls I’m not convinced by that for our purposes.
Out of curiosity, why does our adult NCO cadre begin at sergeant and not corporal?
I’m aware at one point we only had WOs, but why introduce a rank structure only beginning at sergeant?
There is talk of introducing Cpl at the same time as the ATC reduce the age limit to 18.
Yeah, but why do we currently start from sergeant?
Given that we are staff a lot longer than we are cadets, it gives a larger scope for development over the long period of time.
I’m sure someone on here is a WO and is 29? I may be corrected, I just seem to remember reading that. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that, don’t read that as negative. However, potentially that is another 30+ years with no more advancement in the NCO cadre.
Yep thats me!
I thought it was but I didn’t want to be wrong and seem silly.
I came to realise quick quickly you have to be one of two people when it come to the situation im in you either need to be a person who is quite happy plodding a long or a person who wants a bigger role (i.e WWO or RWO). There are grumblings of WO only being given to a CFAV carrying out a role benefiting the wing or x amount of experience
While it’s veering from the topic, it’s not too dissimilar in the officer cadre. Yes, there’s the possibility of WSO and higher, just as there’s the possibility of WWO/RWO, but there are a great many officers who will actively avoid such roles, staying at Flight Lieutenant for just as long as someone might stay as WO.
The main reason is to do with messing, if you go onto a Station you generally have Cadets in the Cadets Block/Tents, NCO’s and CI’s in the Sergeants Mess and Officers in the Officers Mess. If you start the NCO ranks lower down you suddenly need accomodation in Transit Accomodation for these Staff Cpl’s.
Don’t see point/need in the same way that I don’t see the point/need of acting ranks, if someone is good enough to be a Cpl then make them a Cpl, you can always make the promotion “probationary” for the first 3 months to ensure they don’t slip as soon as they get the stripes.
Deep down how much responsibility do people think a Cpl really has that they need a more junior NCO below them?
We have L/Cpls in the CCF and when we have a full complement of establishment NCOs they don’t generally have any duties which wouldn’t be given to a senior cadet on an ATC unit. Often it’s given as a thank you to cadets for hard work who aren’t quite ready for Cpl but who we want to encourage. I wouldn’t push hard for L/Cpl in the ATC unless CWO was going to change dramatically (i.e being a wing only appointment with far fewer permitted than now) with the drop to 18 age limit.