Reliance on older cadets


#41

Are the conditions for employment “breathing” and “doesn’t steal anything during the interview” or something? God knows what they expect to learn about a prospective candidate in 20 minutes.

My last two job interviews lasted two days (OASC) and a total of a few hours (mostly demonstrating my skills, in addition to have already gained a qualification - and bearing in mind I already knew the 2IC!)


#42

Reminder that JL is a leadership course, it only uses fieldcraft as a means of developing leadership. The aim isn’t to “jump around and fire blanks”, it’s to improve your ability to lead a team and make decisions under pressure with lots of distractions - skills that are very relevant in lots of jobs that I can think of, mainly based around public services (police, ambulance, fire, armed forces) or safety critical roles (e.g. Pool Lifeguard).


#43

Wow. Just, wow.

Are you recommending unconscious bias to your cadets as well? Probably not because you don’t talk to them. Good thing as it turns out.


#44

Not every employer has the need, money or time to conduct an OASC type interview.

You shouldn’t be comparing military/public service type interviewing and selection processes to civilian employment.

My “interview” involved getting thrashed until my eyeballs bleed, and excreting every type of bodily fluid to complete.
I wouldn’t expect to do that for a desk job, handle a mop, stack some shelves, or retail.


#45

First impressions go far.


#46

Skills that will be taught in training after initial aptitude testing.

And I am of the firm belief that you shouldn’t be joining the police straight from school. But with life experiences.

Other military and public services have their own selections processes. Regardless of BTEC/JL type quals.
I have seen gobby ex cadets fail tasks that practical lads who left school with no quals smashed.

You utilise these courses for personal development not employment. And it doesn’t matter for the forces because the build you up with the relevant training. Don’t believe the nonsense that cadets is a pre-course for Recruit training and I have seen it hinder people.


#47

True, but enough to decide if the person stood in front of you deserves the position. I don’t think so. Risky model for business whatever the game.


#48

Depends on the business, The number of candidates, and the time, funding available for recruitment.


#49

The Government disagree with you have devised a Police Pension system where if you don’t join before you turn 20 you will never get the full pension. :roll_eyes:


#50

The government also have a lot of bright ideas I don’t agree with.
And it’s usually the ones on the old pensions scheme that get the huge pay out after their final salary, coming up with these ideas.

Absolutely terrible and stupid idea.


#51

One was civilian employment…

My point was not that all interviews or selection processes are that long, but rather that a 20 min max job interview is by no means the norm, especially not for the majority of jobs worth having.


#52

Not really. Had plenty of interviews that varied
From 20mins to 40mins.

A couple of hours is overkill. Stuff sitting in an interview for that long. Sitting and gobbing off
About how amazing you are and giving the sales pitch.
Stuff that.


#53

20-40 sounds much more normal than <20 mins.

I’d agree that in terms of just sitting a formal interview, that much more than an hour would probably be starting to overdo it.


#54

Any serious career job won’t entertain that kind of thinking.


#55

Yes, it is definitely for personal development - the onus is then on the candidate to present their life experiences in such a way that makes them appealing to employers. If they happen to have had more developmental experiences (say, a course that’s designed to develop them as leaders) they can then explain this to a prospective employer in a way relevant to the work they’re interviewing for.
However, if the candidate has not had these experiences, they cannot present them in that way. If you ignore the jobs that have rigorous selection processes like the Forces, then most jobs won’t be able to test people in such a way during the application process - they’ll want the candidate to show that they have already demonstrated such skills. This is where courses like JL and QAIC (leadership and instruction respectively) come into play - they are there for the cadet to learn those skills, and then be able to prove to future employers and transfer over to the workplace.


#56

The face to face lasts c.20 mins with a job based competence test beforehand, that shouldn’t take anymore than 10/15 mins. Our kids when they’ve been for jobs have all had a test and interview, that lasts little more than an hour.

You cannot compare OASC etc to the average civilian company process, given that the MOD employs people to do just that and needs to justify the job/role, ergo 2 or more day process. I did OASC 35 years ago and spent more time in the "waiting room’ overall, luckily I took a book to read. I did feel it could have been done in one day. Based on the guide for commissioning and basic interviews for Commission and SNCO in the ATC, they are formulaic processes and time bound.

In the real world interviews are carried out by people who will have to go back to their desk and catch up, after spending the time doing interviews. Also people coming for interview have busy lives and other things to do. I don’t doubt there are jobs out there where the selection process is protracted for their own reasons, which people can reference.

As for first impressions, counts for a lot and is like it or not a well held practice. Things like appearance, how people come into the interview room, conduct themselves, even time of arrival, go into this.

As for people spending ages explaining themselves in an interview, this is where the personal spec / supporting evidence part of an application comes into its own. You should be able to articulate yourself in writing and not just verbally. This information provides evidence of people’s experience/knowledge, vital for sifting and questions guided by it. Even though I have no intention of moving from here unless I get made redundant, I have put together the parts for a job application. I’ve given it to the personnel manager to get their take and they said slightly too long, but should get me to the interview stage.


#57

The ACO and other cadet forces are great at teaching this. Smart appearance, polished shoes, Ps and Qs, not sitting before being invited are all indicative of the soft skills that create a good impression.

Any company the size of the MoD Will have a large HR department and WILL employ people for recruitment of staff.


#58

I work for a large company and do not have a large HR dept, unless you call a Manager, personnel assistant and secretary large. Our Head Office has essentially the same set up, with the addition of the company manager and one other assistant. We used to have more, but people going and not being replaced over the last 10 years has seen it reduced and this has been the same across all areas. They did try using a recruitment agency for sifting and shortlisting, but they were less than useless, as they get a fee for anyone who gets job as I understand it. One buyer’s job they put forward 6 candidates for final interview not one of whom had the experience required. The chief buyer was not happy as they needed someone ASAP.

Graduate recruitment interviews are carried by senior managers.

If OASC had been in the private sector and not been able to tap into the ATC commissioning process, they’d have been gone years ago or been scaled down to the bare minimum.

Most people now are employed in small companies and they won’t have the time or people for convoluted processes.


#59

If you only have that many staff, you don’t work for a large company.


#60

No they won’t. It all depends on the job. The employer will want the person suited for the job. It’s all fine and well having all the Gucci jumping about and fancy “leadership” and all that, but if they can’t operate CAD or don’t have the required standards of qualifications in the first place, then the candidate isn’t going anywhere.