RAFAC Pins

Well unless they ‘hit the streets’ in the next week, December 1st is but a dream.

However unless the new commission is fully sorted out, would sending them out be a bit premature?

They’ve already said that once you receive the new ones, they are to be worn. So don’t think they care about anything being premature.

I’d say that the move to SNCO/WO RAFAC slides is related to, but not dependent upon, the new CFC.

Not sure why you think that as we moved to RAFAC some time ago and could of been in them months ago. The issue for most is there’s no supplier of them yet for SNCOs and given we are now all the same i fail to see and understand why officers are not wearing the same and have option of MTP ect

Officers have to buy the MTP backed slides…

And backed slides are needed for Plt Off/Fg Off as the braids are small anyway, Flt Lt and above never needed backed slides (pre-CFC)

Why do we need these new rank slides? Nothing is changing for the NCOs, they will still be in the be in the ATC. The ATC is only a part of the RAFAC.

As the new commissioning announcements state officers will be awarded the CFC commission and appointed to the SCC, ACF or ATC/CCF depending on where they serve. Would it not haver been better for everybody to just to wear ATC of CCF pins.

Then there would be no need to spend money on new rank slides for everybody and officers looking gash in MTP because many on principle will not buy something that should be issued.

An issue has been created where none existed, we could have all been brought under the ATC/CCF umbrella at zero cost. As it stands they have brought in new insignia and they are unable to properly fund it. A hole has been created in this pointless rebranding exercise and HQAC has kept on digging.

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Have you asked RC(N)?

As I have said countless times, the change in commission did not require a branding change, this farce was chosen.

We could have changed the commission and carried on as before, no one else wears ATC or VRT so it wasn’t required at all.

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…As in none of the dots have been joined up?..

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  1. We needed to get rid of the ATC and VR(T) pins and move to embroidered rank slides. That is long overdue, partly for neatness and for the various concerns with the pins (FOD risks, snagging on slings, absent-mindedly forgetting to wear them,…)

  2. SNCO/WO should have retained “ATC” branding on rank (or CCF if there are any anomalies out there)

  3. Officers should have moved to "CFC branding across all 3 services. Failing that, ATC, CCF and SCC would have been adequate. Retaining VRT would have been inaccurate so it had to go.

As gilt pins will remain for No1/No5 there is some logic in having one pattern rather than 2 or 3, but it isn’t enough of a saving to bother with.

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Once again it’s almost us and them SNCOs should of retain ATC and Officers CFC branding. We will soon all be civs in uniform and should all be classed as RAFAC nothing more nothing less

I’ve never see it as a “them and us” situation. If we are going to have officers and not-officers, each with different uniforms (or none) and different expectations of speech and compliments then the presence (or not) of a poxy pin badge is not going to make a difference.

We could all badge up as “ATC” but what then of the CCF? Will the CCF officers and ATC officers be happy with the different badging?

Better still, badge all CFAV across the services as “Cadet Forces” and be done with it. That would probably hack off even more people.

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“CADET FORCES” was my preferred option.

And “CF” for the pins on No.1’s/5’s.

And doing that would be cheaper for the whole MOD for the NCO rank backed slides on MTP/OG

We can’t stay with “ATC” for WO/SNCO because one of the selling points of all the changes was to stop having a difference between Officers and Other Ranks.
The ATC is dying a death of a thousand cuts! Many Staff are already changing everything to RAFAC, including changing Social Media profiles, showing them as Squadrons of the RAF Air Cadets, not the ATC! This is due to the lack of direction regarding the rebranding exercise which has gone beyond its original intention, which was to change from ACO to RAFAC.
The irony is that the RAF wants the cadets to be more RAF, but the staff, both Officers and WO/SNCOs, to be less RAF!!

To get back on subject, the pins are a lot bigger than the current VRT and ATC pins. There may be trouble fitting them to the No1/No5 uniforms of Staff of a smaller stature!!

Sorry but the moment the SCC retained RNVR as the rank braid we were just as entitled to retain VRT as our identifier.

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I always find the FOD thing amusing, when you consider the amount of crap around generally, that the small badges being worn by ATC staff who might be airside once or twice a year, are such a massive deal and as for snagging on slings I’m sure for the few times a year that might be a problem can be got around by anyone of below average intelligence, let alone anyone brighter.
In 28 years of being in uniform, I’ve never had a problem with the pins falling off after the tip given to me by an old WO when I became a WO, which was cut the pins off and attached by ‘sewing on’ using thin fishing line. Not only this they look a lot neater than people who keep the pins and clips.

Let’s not kid ourselves this change is all about a move to cheap looking crap nothing more nothing less, when there are better places they could save money in the Corps.

Interesting that you find FOD amusing? The risk of those pins falling out and migrating into an aircraft is very real.
At least the new embroidered slides will reduce that risk.

embroidered slides I agree they look better fall in line with all of the forces etc. My one moan is that in line with the army cadets etc we should all of gone on to one type. RAFAC offices get them in a range or MTP Blue etc while the SNCOs are stuck with the blue ones and for some reason somein HQAC dint think of getting a supplier of SNCO o es untill next year