I’m pretty confident you can re-use mottos by the way. There aren’t enough Latin phrases to go round!
It would be the High Court of Chivalry in England and Wales, which the College of Arms or RAF could choose to take squadrons to.
Although you’re all probably safe, since the 1730s it’s only sat once (1954) and at that point declared it would only sit again for the most important of cases.
In Scotland the Court of the Lord Lyon is a bit more active because it has a criminal function and has sometimes deemed the use of unauthorised badges/arms as a form of tax evasion due to the fact their fees go to the treasury.
No idea on the NI rules
I’m not sure whether all units go through the College of Arms, or if squadrons go to the relevant body for the country in which they are based. That would probably impact the question of which body would enforce it.
That’s the theory (or a very high level overview) but the reality is that there is unlikely to be legal consequences.
However, those of you saying that RAFAC wouldn’t sack OCs for failing to comply because they are short of staff seem to forget that HQ don’t seem to care about being short staffed and have sacked people for minor things before. If this requirement to get rid of unauthorised badges is coming from outside of HQ then I think they’ll be more likely to get rid of you for constant refusal to change.
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Considering they’ll treat you as worthy of dismissal for attending a local fete…
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In theory they can be any language, and we can tweak the wording.
But they do have to be unique.
Sorry to all those units using “venture adventure” and “nulli secundus”
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*Inspectorate of RAF Badges
Garter King of Arms happens to also be the Inspector of RAF Badges, but these two things are separate.
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Could they sack civilian committee chairs?
People who think there’s is no ‘stick’ and that HQ won’t do anything are incredibly lucky not to have experienced certain senior staff in this organization.
They’ll try to kick you out for the most stupid things.
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Are they an RAF bod who’s got the role or is it just two hats that are worn by the same person?
It’s not an RAF thing.
It’s someone with significant heraldic and genealogical background at the college.
RAF involvement stops with the wing commander at RAF Ceremonial, who is the guardian of all things ceremonial as I understand it (at RAF Northolt).
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Between Squadrons? Or more generally? Because I know of a load of military units that share mottos.
All over. There may be some that you know to have slipped through the net between RAF / RAuxAF / RAFAC units, but they’re not supposed to.
It’s all paper records, so that may explain an error.
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You keep saying this, but it is possible to copy a centrepiece and a motto and be approved by the college of arms, as demonstrated further up the thread.
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We’re not meant too
copying someone elses heraldry is a big no-no, but if the college approves it they clearly see a link between the badges (or didn’t care to check)
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Doesn’t matter what we’re meant to do, if the gold standard is getting it formally approved by them, and they have (whether cause they didn’t check (unlikely), don’t care (unlikely) or the rules aren’t as strict as are being made out) it means that coming and saying you can’t do it cannot be true, as we have proof you can.
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Just because something got through that shouldn’t have, doesn’t justify doing it again. The records were all on paper, but are now being digitised, so such mistakes are less likely to be repeated.
If you read the article it wasn’t one that slipped through - it was deliberately & pre declared & approved.
It was t case of people check or went rogue, the Sqn was granted permission & it was approved by everyone involved in the process.
So in general you can’t use another device or motto & that should be your starting point you can do so should you go through the right channels.
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But as @OC.1324 pointed out, for most of it’s history, the records were on paper, that would mean trying to comb through every RAF, RN, Army, Noble bit of heraldry and checking for duplicates.
that’s just not feasible, so it would have been much of a trust system.
But if my old unit tried to put their current badge through, they’d be caught out by simply searching the motto
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Can you please share the full example you’re referring to. It may be possible that there is a misunderstanding.
And the discussion is again demonstrating why it needs gripping, generally speaking.
It isn’t something to be wildly interpreted by people in the organisation by pointing at what they see as precedent.
Not sure in peps on but this is clear example where it was known that the Sqn was using an old approved crest & it was formally granted in 2006.
No paperwork loss, no lack of double checking or lack of due dilliegence.
It was known, it was declared & it was approved (& probably then opened the can of worms for all the other Sqn badges)
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