I was thinking along those lines. ACF CSM.
Sure it doesn’t need the rank but it is one way to justify it, and it’s a logical step to WWO for those interested.
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I would go even further and say that you only get Flt Lt if you are in a role where you would usually get it, but that you can retain Flt Lt if you have spent a specified period in a role that comes with the rank. (I would say 8 years as that is commonly seen as 2 tours).
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Yes, we could certainly make it an acceptable post for promotion to WO, without requiring the incumbent to be a WO.
If they are suitable for promotion to WO and they are filling that post, then they get the promotion; otherwise they can hold the post at a lower rank.
That again is how the SCC do things.
From the WO perspective, it’s 5 years. If a WO2 or WO1 holds a post for less than 5 years and then reverts to a lower unit they revert to the lower rank.
Once they serve 5 years in that rank they keep it.
We could do exactly the same… It happens in the RAF.
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I would agree.
Somewhere between 5 and 8 years is a happy medium…
It would allow for example someone who has worked hard as an OC for 5 years to, step back a bit retain their Flt lt. Maybe due children arriving or change of job.
Then after that, return to a busier role again.
I’m not saying in the case of NEP etc, just when people need to reduce a bit.
At the min it’s now… “sorry not an OC, even after 5 years… back to Fg off you go”. Worse still, in some wings this has led to Officers being put in random wing posts just to retain their rank.
Like someone said. If its ‘acting, unpaid’ what’s the issue?
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TBH and maybe it is because I had ‘real’ rank once upon a time it should be irrelevant but to some it is very important
If we all know these are the rules since CFC then we accept them - those that were Flt Lt VR(T) got to keep them as they were under the old rules
I believe it was to maintain the rank structure and differential - there were some Sqns that were staffed by an abundance of Flt Lts, some of whome were ex OCs that had stood down and those that were time served and never had any intention of stepping up.
Sqn should have 1 Flt Lt as OC and thats it - keeps it simple - if you step down you drop down - and if it is about retained rank then don’t get me started…
As for Wing appointments and higher ranks - same goes - want the rank do the job - don’t do the job lose the rank
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However based on that logic why bother with promotion Matrix at all, got a Commission and in Command your a Flt Lt job done.
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You do have to have completed OIC and been ‘satisfactory’… I’ve not refused to sign one yet!
I agree
Got the experience/skill to be OC - have the rank
Why should not helping a Wg activity or going on a blues camp/holiday stop promotion if you are considered capable to hold the post
Big Boys Job = Big Boys Trousers
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Especially at a time when we should be more mindful that volunteers can’t always volunteer. There’s only so much time available.
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She’s not refusing (that I know of) just been blocked from her email account.
It’s entirely possible we’ll have 2 years worth of new uniformed staff who’ve not been able to go on a camp due to Covid. Even in good times opportunities are quite limited.
At the very least we might have to drop the Blues camp / greens camp distinction, if you’ve done one week long residential as staff you’re good to go.
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The ‘job’ isn’t just OC or Wg staff though. An experienced and competent Flt Lt could be organising and running complex activities, delivering Wg level events, mentoring and developing new officers (including their own OC potentially), managing the training on a large Sqn.
Rank relates to experience and ability, so that everyone has a reasonable expectation and understanding of what to expect from someone. Bouncing between Fg Off and Flt Lt because you’ve changed roles doesn’t reflect that.
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I did that for three years as a CI… go figure
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Just shows how good many CIs are. It’s a demanding job to do well.
Drifting into an old thread here but…
Rank is part of the dress up aspect of us as youth group leaders - it plays its part in front of the Cadets as the Military part of what we do - we are all volunteers and in the real day to day running of the Sqn, Wg, Corps is meaningless - people have jobs that have delegated authority and do them and the rest toe the line regardless of rank - it even happens in the forces (30years ago had operational command over a group including Wg Cdr and 3 Sqn Ldrs as a Fg Off)
You don’t see Scout Leaders standing down and still wanting to be addressed as Chief Baloo
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