Indeed, at the risk of topic drift, private soldiers can now apply for pilot training in the AAC:
The promotion ladder isnât a ladder its a x-mas tree and by the time you get to the top the opposition has really thinned out. Plt. Off. to A.C.M is about 40 years also for o.aâs its often âdead mans shoesâ so promotion in the R.A.F has always been a slow process compared to the Army.
Allegedly because only an officer could make the decision to push the nuclear button.
Certainly the RAF had Sgt pilots in WW2.
Which is entirely moot as the US had a nuclear âhand grenadeâ (the Davy Crockett) so Armageddon could have been started by an NCO. That was even given as a reason for its retirement in the â70s.
But we are now well off topic, sorry!
I canât speak for the Officer side, but for the Other Ranks, most people who want a full career (eg. 18-55 for a 37 Years Full Pension) work their way from AC to WO over that period. In the Army, the period is reduced (18-40 for a Full Pension) so they work their way from Pte to WO1 over a much shorter period. At that point they either leave or commission.
As such, the Army get promoted much quicker, but unless they commission, have a shorter career. It is very noticeable and seems really unfair when you work on a Joint Service Unit when much younger people have a higher rank and, imo, have less experience - but RAF have a potential 37 year career as apposed to an Army 22 year one.
Even better was when the politicians found out that there was a young Flying Officer who was a V Force captain, they screamed, how could such a lowly rank have command of an aircraft that drop nuclear weapons. All the RAF did was to promote anybody who was a V Force captain who was a Flying Officer to Flight Lieutenant, made no difference they were still the same age and person. To make captain in V Force was a second tour post anyway, so they will have had about 5 years experience at that point.
Given that someone has to have a minimum amount of years and good reviews to get promoted. If someone had a perfect career and always got promoted at the earliest oppertunity, would it take 40 years to get from AC to WO? Because even though the RAF is great and all, 40 years of the military sounds like youâd leave with a lot of suffering like PTSD.
No, and no.
I think youâve got some misconstrued notion of what serving is like. Understandable, because you havenât done it, and while itâs good to be aware of some of the potential pitfalls that can happen, itâs also very good to not get fixated on things that are only distantly possible.
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I can only go on what I have heard from others but based on the introduction of the Sgt and FS ranks into the adult structure this was in part to better reflect the parent service.
that isnât to say that in the RAF there are 28 year old WOs (the youngest age for a RAFAC WO), but RAF WO tend to have served â20+ yearsâ and sitting next to a 20 year old RAFAC WO was a bit of a jokeâŚ
as indicated elsewhere it can depend on the trade the AC goes in as - the availability of the positions leading up to WO
there are likely to be Sgts in some trades that are far younger than FSs in others - the RAF Police being a prime example where Cpls are potentially younger than there equal ranking peers.
This is also true for flight crew - I have two friends who joined as flight crew and are Sgts, while another friend, 8 years their senior had reached Cpl - all due to the difference in trade.
That Cpl is now a FS, while the flight crew remain at Sgt so its swings and roundabouts
This is partly due to the link between rank and pay - so if you want to recruit aircrew, you have to pay competitively. One of my teaching colleagues who is ex-RAF officer insists that if only they broke that link, they could recruit more efficiently. But then he is the sort of person who has a solution for every problem if only people would listen to himâŚ
Yeah, but then you can open the can of worms that is the Professional Aviator Spine and⌠Letâs not.
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Sorry, but thatâs an apocryphal story that has its origins in the question:
âAre you an real Squadron Leader or a VC10 captain.â
I knew a number of Flying Officer captains, none of whom were promoted out of time. I also knew the pilot who was the youngest ever V-Force captain. He was appointed at the age of 23 and spent a considerable in the left seat of the Valiant before being promoted to Flight Lieutenant.
With regard to NCO aircrew on the V-Force, they were confined to the Valiant. They were replaced not because of UK policy, but due to US regulations. For the latter part of its employment in the strike role the Valiant was equipped with 2 x American weapons. US requirements dictated that involvement in nuclear release was the prerogative of commissioned officers. This did fall broadly in line with the RAF policy to concentrate upon direct recruitment to commissioned rank and the possibility that we might in future use US weapons in other roles.
A number of Valiant AEOps took the opportunity to apply for a commission whilst others seized upon it as a chance to escape from the V-Force.
You must bear in mind, career progression and development is not necessarily aligned to rank. Not everyone sees spending years on MoD central staff or an âexciting â headquarters post as an enticing prospect! Chief Test Pilot for the CAA, the Board of John Lewis and AAIB investigator are all positions that have at sometime been held by RAF pilots who left around mid-point.
A high level of professional achievement will always present more interesting career opportunities than a narrow focus on rank progression.
Exmpa
And in 10 years we may have the first female service chief then CDS. Possibly two firsts for the RAF.
Absolutely not!
On a âperfectâ career SAC within 1 year, +3 for Cpl, +4 for Sgt, +5 for FS, +5 for WO = 18 years - and that based on having the correct number of appraisals in rank - that can technically be beaten if you get promoted earlier. That being said, not many people have that âperfectâ career - but it is way off 40 years. It has probably changed now (with age discrimination), but a full career was always 37 years - if you stayed for the 37, you can make WO.
You invariably have âwobblesâ along the way - all it takes is for you to screw up one year to have that affect your promotion chances for a few years. Likewise, you also get people in a reporting chain that either donât like you for some reason or are just really harsh markers on appraisals. Also, it all depends on the trade you are in, the current state of the trade and (sometimes) dead mans shoes.
You can also have WOâs who are a lot younger with the direct entry SNCOs - WO possible by 28 (although unlikely).
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So the rank is just WO, but you also have people like the WO of the RAF, who is bassicly just the WO of WO and is the highest ranking WO as such. I take it to get there itâs just a case of kissing some glutes.
Also, are WO in the RAF stereotypical WO. As on TV and some WO in the RAFAC, they like to go nuclear on people for doing something as simple as putting their hands in their pockets, or something simple like that?
No. You have to be bloody good at your job.
No. Maybe on a training establishment they are stricter but the nuclear option is almost certainly not the first, second or third port of call except for some pathetic bullies in the RAFAC who like to think they were running a national service unit
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Back in the day, when there was a General Duties Trade Group, they were bred into being like the WO you describe. Once they became a JNCO, they were generally a JNCO Discip, followed by SNCO Discip / SNCO IC Guardroom, then FS Discip (SWO on smaller stations), then WO who were SWOs. They were a very shouty trade and you generally avoided contact as much as possible!
Since the âprofessionalâ SWOs have been a thing of the past, any WO can apply to be a SWO - they are expected to maintain discipline - although generally not as bad as the previous cadre. BUT it all depends on the character of the person in the post. Some are way worse than others (RAF Regt / RAFP are generally very strict).
WOs who are not SWOs are generally fine - again, it depends on the person and the post they are holding. Trade Group, Unit size and current role all play a part. But, rest assured, upset them at your peril!
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How hard is this really? As Iâd hope the airmen in the RAF can get on with it without being disciplined like teens in the ATC?
Long service and good conduct medalâŚ
If they expected you to be goodâŚyou wouldnât get a medal for itâŚ
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I wish that was the case. Generally, we are talking about the Junior Ranks (below Cpl), there are some who never take the RAF seriously and are just in it for the money any the lifestyle. There are still people who do 12 or 15 years service who donât ever get promoted to Cpl. You have airman (sorry aviators) who are scruffy and donât maintain their uniform and are generally scruffy. You have the unhygienic ones, the ones who always show up with a hangover etc. Some do not use rank, calling NCOs and Officers by their first names (if they know them from a sports team etc). There is a lot of undisciplined people in the RAF!