Pre Uniform Courses - Mandatory or Optional

I disagree with this as it takes time & to keep people engaged you need them in & active & the quickest route is CI.

However there is no reason why you can’t tack the SNCO process onto the CI induction.

Person applies
Phase 1 -Starts as a CI (with in three months)
Phase 2 -appointed SNCO (within six months)

There was an article on the BBC where a 17 year old was accidently sworn in as a Constable.

This is because you can apply & start the process before 18 you just can’t formally join.

Apply that to adult staff & that you can’t be appointed to SNCO until the six/12 month probationary period is completed but you can apply & go through the process.

Currently people are waiting for the end of the probation before applying & This just has everyone waiting around unnecessarily & marking time.

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You can apply for direct entrant Sgt, according to ACP 20. It’s just that HQAC haven’t developed a process to appoint anyone using this route. Bader Join etc only creates a new CI.

I don’t think HQ needs to - just ask the question at the filter interview and then go straight down Sgt application once started otherwise they will be waiting for ages before everything lined up & the can start.

New staff records on JPA are created from the Join workflow. There isn’t a Join option for Sgt, I believe, therefore all new Sqn staff have to join as CIs.

Sgt needs to be added to the Join workflow. That’s the process that I mean.

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I think perhaps you misunderstood me there.
What I’m saying is, rather than requiring them to be properly enrolled as a CI before they can attend the ‘which way do I want to go?’ course, we let them attend that course before they are properly enrolled as anything. Give them the option to get on it as an applicant. There’s absolutely no reason that we need to wait until they’ve already signed up. We treat it as part of the interest/application process.

So, instead of getting their interest, having them fill in forms, and then telling them to go away and hold until their DBS comes back, let’s use the time wisely and get them thinking about what they want to do.
The initial stages (DBS, AVIP, &c) are the same regardless, so we can be doing those once they’ve decided that the RAFAC is definitely for them, but whilst they choose the form of their involvement; between Sgt or CI (or commission if they are eligible for direct entry commission).


Tried it - got kickback from Wg saying could not happen as they did not have the knowledge to pass an SNCO board interview

Catch 22 - can join with no experience as per ACP 20 but can’t pass a board as they have no experience

How do you know if someone can pass a board unless they sit a board?

You could do a pre-uniform mock board first as part of the induction process but otherwise you have to let them try.

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Which wouldn’t be true for a recent ex-Cadet e.g. left at 18, 2 years working or uni, then wants to re-join at 20. They have lots of experience and would be an ideal direct SNCO


Why can’t they trust the OC to make that assessment?

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Unit OCs will never ever be trusted as that damages the empires that have been built up over mamy years.

But they have experience

They might be an avid ACC reader :wink:

I’ve heard that stupid excuse from other places too.

We’re a uniformed organization who - absolutely correctly - accept direct entry uniformed staff as Sergeants. Just like our other cadet forces colleagues.

For anyone to decide that those applying for direct entry can’t pass a board speaks volumes about their own mental capacity. What is wrong with these people!?

Two options:

  1. Rethink expectations of the board - because people applying direct absolutely SHOULD be able to pass. That’s the whole darned point.

  2. Assist people to pass the board by giving them the required knowledge; but don’t keep them hanging on for months.

The board should be weeding out those who are not suitable to volunteer as cadet instructors; not filtering out to favour only those who’ve spent weeks swatting up.
It’s the first step on a process of development.


I’d be interested to know how direct entrant SNCO would work.

I imagine myself having about five years left… Maybe more if I’m incredibly lucky. And I’m hoping to come back into uniform down our neck of the woods again.

Well, how it should work is:

Someone says “Hi. I think I’d like to volunteer as an instructor in the RAFAC…”
We tell them a bit about us and explain the three options: 1. Sgt, 2. CI, 3. Officer (after a year as a Sgt or CI).
They say “Sergeant sounds like my thing”.
We board them to make sure they’re not a lunatic / too immature / a raging nazi… and that they’ve done the same basic prep for the board as anyone would do before interview for a job they want.
We say “You’re in” and we train them how to be a Sergeant in the RAFAC.

That’s what the book basically says, and that’s certainly how I’m pushing for it to be in reality.



I mean, I wouldn’t want to personally come in and be the junior WO…

In all seriousness, that’s probably how it should be. Similar to the PI stream for the ACF perhaps? If the uniform isn’t for them they can always go CI?


Exactly that.
That is the official line. It’s just that in some parts of the country, people prefer to meddle and micromanage, and insist on making things hard.
Direct entry SNCO is a thing - those people need to get with the programme or get out of the way.


I mean, you probably know which squadron I’d end up rocking up to when I’m out…

Use it as a trial run if you want :wink:

We’re in a relatively good position here; I haven’t really got to fight very hard.
We’ve had a couple come through recently and be passed as Sgts.
It’s them other lot elsewhere that’s the problem :wink:

As long as they aren’t the ones I’ve seen in 4s on FB with creases down their jacket sleeves… :upside_down_face: