You know, this sounds like a large part of what I do for a living - which is probably why it’s presenting itself as a potential hang-up! So much admin and it’s still going to be incorrect in some way, you just know it. And Form Z? We know Form Z also has appendix laying out all the 2023 updates meaning you needn’t have worried about Form X in the first place.
Ah yes.
You do hit the nail on the head though. The whole reason I am considering this is to somehow participate in the exact same things you mention, because I hold onto those same memories very fondly and I swear the things I learned from the instructors have stayed with me, including certain ways of going about my day, professionally or otherwise.
I was living in London a few years ago and the Mrs accompanied me to the RAF museum - I thought I had never been but it turns out I was there when I was 13 and didn’t know I was in Edgeware. All the memories came back and you just want that to happen to your own Sqn down the line.
I suppose seeing it from the side of the adult is where the rubber meets the road though - you’re enabling those memories rather than experiencing them and it might be that that’s pushing some folk away when faced with mountains of paperwork.
Hi there, this info is a bit wrong/out of date I’m afraid.
If someone joins with the purpose of commissioning ASAP, there is almost no chance that they would start in a company role. It isn’t impossible, just very unlikely. There isn’t such thing as a detachment being large enough to be run by an officer, it is basically down to availability. A new instructor will almost certainly be put in a detachment. There is also not really a direct commissioning process. All instructors start off as a Probationary Instructor unless they don’t wish to go into uniform. They then progress through their training until they have done the courses necessary for promotion to Probationary Sergeant Instructor, and then Sergeant Instructor (SI). At that point, they can attend a Pre commissioning board to be appointed as an Under Officer, prior to attending the proper Commissioning Board to become a 2Lt.
Officer posts at company level usually start at Captain, though are sometimes filled by 2Lt and Lts if they are recently commissioned.
While capbadges do vary, it doesn’t really mean much except the different headgear and a different 2 star military knowledge lesson.
Those who do not wish to go into uniform can become a Non-Uniformed Volunteer (NUV), though these are more used for admin roles rather than instructors.
Most training on weekends is done at company level, though detachments can organise their own training and social events. It is just down to the staff really.
Now, with regards to who is better, I think one of the biggest differences is just how well the individual units are run. Some are run well, some are not, and that probably goes for all cadet forces.
From what I was told, someone would have to join as a CA then PI then do their officer course (1 year unless that has changed).
So despite all the grumbles on here the ATC process can be quicker, at least for officers.
As to unit size, none of the detachments round my way have any officers, they are all at Coy level. I some raised eyebrows when they hear how many officers some of our Squadrons have!
That’s just about the way the ACF is structured, and how it operates - local det is for low level training, Coy & County is for almost all activities, and most training.
One could argue the ACO is going that way - as a cadet so 30 years ago (Christ, etc…) pretty much everything we did was on the Sqn, we’d do a wing organised thing perhaps 3 times a year.
Wings simply weren’t a part of our lives, you could do a full calendar of activities for 5 years as a cadet and meet someone from wing two or three times in your whole time in the ATC…
i remember those times…when doing a “wing thing” was seen as special and the person going was “a chosen one” (insert Toy Story Aliens “Ooo” noise) as they were going to do something with someone else
There’s inherently a lot of admin in my profession so it’s not something that scares me nor is it something I question the necessity of. The cadets need to be safe and everyone needs to be trained and insurable, presumably.
Do you find you’re taking the admin home with you?
Incidentally I’ve been checking out similar topics in ACF forums and there appears to be a lot of the same, as others have mentioned here.
In conclusion I think I’m going to have to mull this over a bit longer. I hate to be that guy but if this is something sustainable over the long term, which would be my intention, then the work/reward balance has to be right. Too much of what I do on the other 40 hrs per week might just be too much.
Thanks for all your input guys, I appreciate the comments and sharing your experiences. It has been extremely helpful if somewhat a disheartening conclusion.
Same, and it would feel like they had some weird aura and a tale to tell upon their return. What’s beyond the wall? Usually more of the same but with posh, better kids!
Yes and no. We do not have CAs. You join and have no real status until you attend the Familiarisation and assessment weekend - the very first thing you do - at which point you become an official CFAV as PI or a NUV depending on your choice.
We don’t have a direct entry process as an officer so it probably is a longer process. You have to get to the point where you become an SI before you can become a 2Lt. There isn’t any kind of “Probationary Under Officer” rank/appointment, so the Under Officer appointment is not generally given until the CFAV has completed their Advanced Induction Course, which is the promotion course for SI.
There is no real pressure to commission for CFAVs at det level as you don’t really have to have an officer in charge, so most CFAVs don’t actually bother. That said, if you are fresh into the organisation and plan on commissioning right off the bat, you are likely to end up as an officer at a detachment, not at company level. The officers at company level are generally those who have been NCOs for 5-10 years at detachment level, and have then applied for a coy post and commissioned at the same time. In the ideal world, all detachments would be run by an officer, but we know that doesn’t happen.
I used to be a det commander in the ACF (as a 19 to 21 year old Sgt Instructor) and the admin was minimal compared to what I see in the ATC. I had carte blanche to run my own programme around the occasional visit from the Coy skill at arms team, cadet training team, etc. It was in a deprived area so I didn’t collect subs and no one ever questioned this.
Now, the thing about most training and activity being done at Coy or County / Bn level is it means lots of full weekends away. That was fine when I was a student, until I joined the TA and their weekends started getting in the way and I simply couldn’t progress or even remain with the ACF without attending lots of weekends. With the ATC, on the other hand, we seem to have twice as many drill nights (my ACF dets and most, but not all, in my experience only paraded one night a week) but fewer full weekends away (weekend activities are often just a day or part-day). It could be rose-tinted spectacles, but I don’t remember spending any time on mandatory training in the ACF, freeing up time and capacity for personal development (range courses, etc.)
And how long ago was that? Even we were a different world in that regard 10 years ago, that was different to 10 years prior which was different to 10 years prior.
We’ve managed to finally come to a sensible compromise of 3 year validity on some courses, once and done for some others, and the most critical are annual. Weapons are exactly the same with tighter currencies.
The forum content hasn’t quite caught up, but many here were around when all of our training was introduced in a lump, with annual renewal, then returned from COVID with everything that brought us - which included renewing what we hadn’t used for 2 years, some new stuff, and just existing.
For a new joiner, the mandatory training is a bit of a hit, but realistically now things are settling down it’s not that bad for the rest of us. Keeping current on the non mandatory stuff is a hassle at times though. Especially FT where the rules are about to hit their 4th or 5th change in 8 years.
Besides, do you think the ACF don’t now also do a lot of the same stuff we do in terms of mandatory training?
I’m not saying the grass is greener (after all, I came back to the ATC, in which I’d originally been a cadet, after instructing in the ACF) but the Army and RAF are different beasts.
When I was in the TA, all mandatory annual training could be covered in one weekend and consisted of annual personal weapons / combat marksmanship test, NBC / CBRN, various fitness tests over the years, first aid / battlefield casualty drills, and a few briefs. In the RAF Reserves we now spend an estimated 60 hours a year on mandatory training, mostly E-learning on everything from the infamous climatic injuries to counter fraud.
Is that £55k total cost which you imply is all wastage, or is that £55k above what it should reasonably be, ie, actual wastage? I’d be intrigued to read your dissertation once it’s done/published
