No help for Sqn Commander and when you step down your penalised

Hi I don’t know if it’s just P+ C Wing but if you’ve run a Sqn and hardly no support from the Wing staff you ask to step down for a rest or a break you are signing away any chance of ever running a Sqn again.
I ran a Sqn for seven years on my own and when I ask to step down I was told we will look in to it, nothing was done so I offered my resignation then I was allowed step down.
I took my well earned rest and came back firing on all four cylinders but I could not go back to my old Sqn I was told to travel to a Sqn 30+ miles away which I refused and basically stop going to cadets. That was three years ago I am now back at my old Sqn, but history is repeating its self my Sqn commander wants to take a break because of personal problems but P+C Wing won’t let him, we at Sqn took the decision to tell him to take all the time he needs and we the Sqn staff will run the Sqn. He only wants a break to the new year it’s not a lot to ask. Now we have taken that decision Wing are trying to get another officer to step in to take over but he in the past has said no way. He is a good officer but works shifts and won’t be there that much, why is common sense never allowed to be used anymore. Why not ask the Sqn staff what they want? Why not let the CO have his rest, he still want to run the Sqn but needs a rest. It really does beggars belief that these so called superior officers can’t see that. It’s not a sign of weakness its strength.

I see the problems, however if you step down from command why should you just expect to take a break and then just magically go back to your old squadron, presumably as OC? Someone else may have been filling that role and sometimes there is nothing worse for an OC than having the " When I ran the squadron…" conversation. Every OC needs to put their personal stamp on the unit. I have had breaks and after each one returned to where I was needed, not where I had been before.

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Who are these people to tell you where you should and shouldn’t go? Where’s the contract saying they can tell you where you volunteer?

It’s a voluntary organisation and you should go where you want to, after all it’s your time and it’s your money that gets you there.
I know people who live a couple of miles from a sqn and attend one 10+ miles away. Interestingly they don’t attend the sqn as much as they could the close one.

Personally I can’t see the point of volunteering miles away unless it’s the only opportunity to do so.

OK the “when I was the CO” might come up, but so what. If you don’t like the direction the new bod takes it, then you can make the decision. Personally I wouldn’t go anywhere else, where I am is convenient to me, I can get in from work, have some food, sit down for a while then go out. Anywhere else and I’d lose the chance to relax a bit. There are sqns not too far away on paper but on the roads it’s a different matter at 1830.

This attitude is such a shame, we should help our staff not alienate them. Our OC took a leave of absence to regain work life balance, in everyone’s eyes he needed a break and it was the sensible thing to do. As far as I’m aware, there is no reason why he should not return to the Squadron. In our situation we have a new OC as our current decided to step down however, the he would be welcome back as a Squadron officer and is keeping in regular contact.

I object to this persons user name.

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No, no - I’m Pilot Officer Prune - and so is my Wife!

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It’s ok, s/he’s either a petty officer or a post office.

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Good point!

Unfortunately there is little or no respect for who we are, what we want and what we do.
They would sooner lose a member of staff than try and resolve any problems. This is a reason why people go NEP or take LOA, it means they get the chance to say no thanks.

Even more unfortunately there are people who would say good riddance.

Appointment of OCs isn’t fine by preferred vote on the unit. Wing hq decide who goes where and when. I’d be pretty hacked off taking up the reigns only for a previous Oc to want back in. Everyone knows the rules when they put on the uniform. If you don’t like them don’t put it on. Simple.

This is not about the rules this is about having a duty of care of the staff in your command/care. This is another illustration of why so many people are hacked off with this organisation.

The same has happened on my wing. Sqn cdr is a SNCO one man band and has been for about 4 years trying hard to lead, run, manage and recruit staff and cadets while working shifts as a police officer. Finally chucked it in and the sqn has has a newly appointed SNCO running the sqn and so the circle starts again.

Instead of having this Sgt move there a year ag on appointment and have to staff and share the burden it your are the CO it is now your problem.

I get that, and holding the baton of command is something you can hand (or throw back) but the rest of the stuff about wanting to go back to where you demand and take back command is what I was alluding to.

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I think that the lack of help / support for sqn cdrs from Wing is something that is missing in the organisation. As a sqn cdr you are expected to look out for your staff and quite rightly so, but sqn cdrs are just expected to get on with it and not complain or anything. It was the main thing that made me decide to resign as there was no help from Wing and it was the only way I could get out of the job.

I stayed where I was when I ditched the uniform and never once have I thought I’d want to take the command back. You would need sectioning if you did that, in my opinion.

I’ll admit I’ve thought the people we’ve had since could stand up for themselves a bit more when Wing Staff visit. I had and still have no respect for our current Wing Staff. It’s irritating when they say you haven’t done this or that and then get antsi when you point out they aren’t that good at their jobs.

This is a fairly modern thing for COs. Before I became OC I had to meet the CWC and get their OK.
As for Wing deciding where people go, complete and utter rubbish. They may ask if you would like to, even when it comes to people becoming OCs, but if you don’t want to, not a lot they can do in reality and bursts the little “we’re in the RAF” bubble some like to think they are in.

For this bit (the other parts I can’t disagree) it is wings decision. If they don’t want you pushing out someone already there then it’s not going to happen. Yes, if someone doesn’t want to be posted somewhere there’s little that can be done (except the loosing of pay and travel claims, bottom of the pile when jollys are being considered, ignorance of complaints which come in later and a general disregard for the stubborn person - which in my books is appalling, but it goes on).

Or a Teletubbie.

The old ACP31the hardback one you could amend stated that the Sqn Cdr was appointed by the Sqn Committee.
HQAC changed the rules many years ago. This came in when they changed the T and Cs of the Sqn Committee to the CWC.

One of the key relationships on a squadron is the one between the CWC and the CO. I think that the process of wing appointing people has created more problems than it resolves.

A sqn local to us had a CO appointed and immediately he conflicted with the CWC and I know they are trying to get rid of him. He doesn’t attend very often and apparently runs the sqn by email. I’ve met him twice and I wouldn’t let him run a tap, but Wing think he’s wonderful.

This of course contrasts with a similar problem where the civcom think that they run the squadron and obstruct or attempt to oust a legitimate OC, but that is probably a matter for a separate discussion.

I think much of the power of a CWC is a matter for history and has less relevance today than it did in 1941.

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It’s not a matter of power, the CWC have the overall welfare of the sqn as part of their remit. If an OC (legitimate or otherwise whatever that means) disrupts a sqn, then the CWC have a full role in seeking a new OC. Being OC is not an ego trip.

If a CWC think they run the sqn then that’s a poor OC, IMO. Sqns run as a partnership between staff and committee.

There are a number of younger OCs who have no regard for CWCs and see them, judging by their comments, as a hindrance.

Whilst this is a thread drift, I’ve seen many an CWC ruin OCs and have been largely untouchable by wing hq.

Tell me, how does the mantra of “the CWC has the responsibility of welfare for a Sqn” fit with the fact that staff have the responsibility for safeguarding? Largely CWC don’t have any training on safeguarding or personal data security so how can they be responsible.