More bad news for the reds

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21

I’ve let my genuine love for the service get the better of me here.

This isn’t limited to the Red Arrows. Unfortunately as the PR squadron of the RAF, they should be above reproach. This is endemic in the service and I hate it.

Those who breach this need to go. Be they brylcream and aviator wearing red jumpsuited airheads, or a lowly AS2 regiment gunner. They need to be removed.

The reds are one of the things that inspired me to join, perhaps that’s why I’m so angry about this. But this rot needs to be removed.

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22

I agree, never play at work was my first rule, as if you have to discipline somebody in particular if are in or have been in a relationship, leaves you wide open to all sorts of accusations.

Also keep your outside life private, the people I worked with only ever knew that I owned a cat but nothing about my relationships until once I walked in with a tall dark haired young lady I was going out with at the time, kept the gossips going for weeks.

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23

The mate I mentioned earlier took 6 years to get to the front line. Most of his 20’s spent holding.

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24

My IOT was among the last of the surge courses over a decade ago, we had 150, half of whom were pilots.

Two years later, some 400 pilots in all stages of training, including a handful not far away from OCU, were made redundant.

Friends of mine that managed to stay in took anything from 5 years (RW) to 8 years (FJ) to become operational.

In the meantime, bluntie friends had done 4 operational tours…

Yes, the current tricky bit is the OCU and bums on seats, but every Red will be more than good enough to be a trainer. Shift them off somewhere they can actually do some good for a warfighting service.

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25

Is/Was he? Wg Cdr IIC so, with the exception of flight pay, what additional pay would he have got?

26

@Horriblelittletechie is absolutely right. Holding the Sovereign’s Commission used to be something special. Those who achieved it were considered to have higher standards in pretty much everything; the officer and a gentleman bit if you like.

When I joined in the 80s, a discovered or disclosed extra-marital affair resulted in an Air Force Board letter of grave displeasure; and that was any affair at all, work colleague, subordinate, fellow officer’s wife, any affair. A posting to one or both parties always resulted and the Letter itself was a career stopper.

In the 90s they brought in the Service Test. Basically, did the extra marital affair affect military effectiveness? Sleeping with colleagues or subordinates, or pressurising juniors into things was a no no. As was sleeping with a fellow officer’s wife if they were on the same unit. The problem was it allowed affairs outside of the Service or away from the immediate unit to happen without much, if any, disciplinary action against the parties involved. Sort of shot down the ‘officer and gentleman’ and the commission as being special. It almost became a free for all at some stations!

Now the Reds. They’ve always been a law unto themselves. Genuine masters of ‘what happens on det/down route/on tour stays there’. The Falcons I am led to believe were pretty much the same. Red Parties in Cyprus were notorious, frequently for the wrong reasons. Unfortunately, social media probably doesn’t help things ‘stay on det’ and the rags like the Mail and the red tops love any sensation to do with the military.

The RAF itself is in love with the Reds. Disbanding them has been tabled before and quickly dismissed by our High Paid Help. They are and (regrettably some might say) will be for a long time to come, the face of the Service. That said, and bearing in mind what I said earlier about the difficulty they may have in showing the ‘decent’ side of the RAF, publicly they have to be beyond reproach otherwise they bring the whole Service down with them.

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27

He’ll be on what’s known as the professional aviator spine. What they earn on that is a very tidy sum.

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28

Play with :fire: - prepare to get burnt.

Irrespective of the other reasons mentioned, no-one has mentioned the potential for blackmail, no major secrets in RAFAT maybe, but with the claws in, wait until in an operational role, especially as wg cdr / gp capt. :skull_and_crossbones:

There once was a junior officer, in his “second single” days who met a rather attractive young lady at a local pub; they had a great time & agreed to meet up again. Next date, things went swimmingly, but crucial to the story, neither party had mentioned their job circumstances. After the second date, there was clear agreement to have more than a drink, so back to the (as yet) unknown junior officer’s accommodation, with some explanatory words that it was going to be a military establishment, the Officers’ Mess in fact. The young lady’s eyes were a bit wider than perhaps expected…

Next day, the junior officer (a gentleman of course) offered to take the young lady home. No need, she explained, I can walk - I live 200 yds away in the block. Ah, b*gger, end of that then. What a shame, such a gorgeous cpl. :blush:

At the same time, there was a female junior officer who had a (very, very discrete) relationship with, & eventually married, a sgt. Career went very cold, she left the RAF.

Knew several people, started relationship, officer / air person, wallop, instant posting for one of them.

Shortly after I left Bruggen, OC Ops started an affair with deputy Sqn Ldr Op’s wife; was caught “flagrante delicto” playing a different type of squash in the Officer’s Mess squash court. He was hit under QR1021, confined to his quarter for 2 weeks as he had to finish off all the OJARs, then had to clear the unit getting his signatures himself, no Ops cpl being lumbered. Back to UK in disgrace.

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29

But at the moment the Hawk T1 is an aged airframe and anybody going there has to be retrained for an analogue cockpit.

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30

Every SDR the idea of disbanding the reds is muted, each year it pops up in the papers & each year it is then dropped as an idea. What a lot of us not in the public sector/government world forget is that cost is very often irrelevant & never the deciding factor.

The Reds are a political tool, showing off the RAF, showing the glamour. Every state occasion, every high profile sporting event F1, world cups, games open in ceremonies. With that comes logistics, marketing, training areas, merchandise, copyright & intellectual property protection & enforcement, politics.

There are some civil servants & members of the RAF who want to disband the reds not because they feel that they are not cost effective but because they can’t be bothered to deal with the hassle of looking after needy peacocks when they have more important things on their time.

How many former red arrows pilot have made above grp captain? How many AVMs or AMs has there been that have worn the red?

An then you have those pilots who didn’t make the grade, who focused on their career but have carried the chip around with them after being rejected and when the opportunity for petty revenge raises its head they can take advantage with the added bonus that they are not going to affect the front line or cost lives.

An elite has got to hold themselves to an exacting level of behaviour because otherwise the non-elite will pounce for no more complicated reasons than pettiness, ego & expediency.

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31

Ah the Red Star overnight posting - source of much gossip and speculation amongst those not in the know.
Was amazing to see the ingenious and creative ways people managed to destroy their careers in the pursuit of an away win (but only for discussion in a private bar and not on here :innocent:)

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32

Gets even worse. Monty sounds like a real piece of work

33

“an attractive woman now in her 40s,”

As if that’s relevant… Daily Mail, perpetrating that which is is admonishing…

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34

Would you expect anything else from that sorry excuse for journalism?

35

Absolutely not. Just sad really.

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36

Not good news again

Looks like this thread keeps on giving

37

Whilst heavily redacted, the NSI report & COC letter do not make for pleasant reading.

https://www.raf.mod.uk/documents/pdf/rafat-nsi-report/

https://www.raf.mod.uk/documents/pdf/rafat-coc-report/

Was in the Reds crew room very recently, big official posters about behaviour, standards, reporting chain, etc.

38

‘Redacted raised concerns about flight safety and alcohol’ followed by three examples. That alone should warrant its own inquiry.

39

Reading through the reports what is apparent is the focus on alcohol & the link to the sexual predatory behaviour.

It’s a bit of speculation but I wonder if this report/investigation prompted a wider guidance review on alcohol consumption, particularly in training establishments, resulting in the change of policy we have had regarding cadet dinners.

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40

I think we (the RAFAC) will have had enough safeguarding incidents where alcohol was a contributing factor. That’s what got our policy changed, not what the Reds were doing!

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