The difference in the Drills between the L85 & L98 are as follows:
The IA for the 85 is check the position of the cocking handle, and carry out the required subsequent action as taught.
The IA for the 98 is to apply the safety catch and check the position of the cocking handle, and carry out the required subsequent action as taught.
The application of the safety catch, reduces the risk of a negligent discharge whilst carrying out an IA & Subsequent action, consider how a rifle waves about with a cadet, rather than remaining horizontal and pointing down the range!!
The Load/Unload/Make Safe is the same difference with the safety cat ch applied on the 98 but not on the 85 IIRC itâs been a while, this is again for the same reason as detailed above, barrels have a habit of pointing everywhere.
[quote=âthemajorâ post=7909]
The application of the safety catch, reduces the risk of a negligent discharge whilst carrying out an IA & Subsequent action, consider how a rifle waves about with a cadet, rather than remaining horizontal and pointing down the range!!
The Load/Unload/Make Safe is the same difference with the safety cat ch applied on the 98 but not on the 85 IIRC itâs been a while, this is again for the same reason as detailed above, barrels have a habit of pointing everywhere.[/quote]
If a cadet is waving their rifle around on the range they get removed from said range. Likewise if the barrels are pointing everywhere they should not pass their WHT. It is perfectly possible to load and unload the L98A2 while keeping the barrel horizontal.
[quote=âtalonâ post=7911][quote=âthemajorâ post=7909]
The application of the safety catch, reduces the risk of a negligent discharge whilst carrying out an IA & Subsequent action, consider how a rifle waves about with a cadet, rather than remaining horizontal and pointing down the range!!
The Load/Unload/Make Safe is the same difference with the safety cat ch applied on the 98 but not on the 85 IIRC itâs been a while, this is again for the same reason as detailed above, barrels have a habit of pointing everywhere.[/quote]
If a cadet is waving their rifle around on the range they get removed from said range. Likewise if the barrels are pointing everywhere they should not pass their WHT. It is perfectly possible to load and unload the L98A2 while keeping the barrel horizontal.[/quote]
With you 1000% if said Cadet cant keep it pointing down range I wouldnt let them touch a rifle full stop
[quote=âtmmorrisâ post=7904]I donât really agree the LSW is a good support weapon. Firing the thing, prone position, left arm wrapped around to the rear pistol grip and bipod deployed, itâs rather good. But try tabbing with the blasted thing or (worse) advancing with it at low port, and itâs a front-heavy nightmare.
[/quote]
So itâs a good support weapon, but you need to do more push ups?
Iâm a bit shocked by the willingness of ATC staff to accept âweapons waving aroundâ during drills and the fact that cadets will brass up the range on bursts given the chance. Surely those sort of things should just never happen ever.
[quote=âtalonâ post=7911][quote=âthemajorâ post=7909]
The application of the safety catch, reduces the risk of a negligent discharge whilst carrying out an IA & Subsequent action, consider how a rifle waves about with a cadet, rather than remaining horizontal and pointing down the range!!
The Load/Unload/Make Safe is the same difference with the safety cat ch applied on the 98 but not on the 85 IIRC itâs been a while, this is again for the same reason as detailed above, barrels have a habit of pointing everywhere.[/quote]
If a cadet is waving their rifle around on the range they get removed from said range. Likewise if the barrels are pointing everywhere they should not pass their WHT. It is perfectly possible to load and unload the L98A2 while keeping the barrel horizontal.[/quote]That, and by the very nature of an IA drill you should be unlikely to have an ND anyway!
[quote=âMattBâ post=7915][quote=âtalonâ post=7911][quote=âthemajorâ post=7909]
The application of the safety catch, reduces the risk of a negligent discharge whilst carrying out an IA & Subsequent action, consider how a rifle waves about with a cadet, rather than remaining horizontal and pointing down the range!!
The Load/Unload/Make Safe is the same difference with the safety cat ch applied on the 98 but not on the 85 IIRC itâs been a while, this is again for the same reason as detailed above, barrels have a habit of pointing everywhere.[/quote]
If a cadet is waving their rifle around on the range they get removed from said range. Likewise if the barrels are pointing everywhere they should not pass their WHT. It is perfectly possible to load and unload the L98A2 while keeping the barrel horizontal.[/quote]That, and by the very nature of an IA drill you should be unlikely to have an ND anyway![/quote]
I feel a need to clarify my comments about waving rifles, the younger/smaller cadets do not tend to have the strength to maintain the rifle in a horizontal position, down the range at THEIR target. the movement is small, but if a ND where to happen the shock could result in the rifleâs position changing with the round still in the barrel.
The possibility of an ND is possible once the stoppage has been cleared and the bolt is released, depending on how the cadet is holding the rifle. It needs to be remembered that the safety catch for IA is clearly added as the result of the risk assessment that was completed for the rifle.
I doubt that adding the safety catch to the IA increases the threat of âwaving aboutâ - is a slight movement of the finger, not some exxagerated gesticulation!
Iâm in 2 minds on this - part of me thinks that the drills should be the same as the L85, the other part of me can see the logic of the cadet-ised drills.
As for instructors forgetting what drills to teach, hopefully if they are a SAAI they should have the ability to remember the difference, if not what the hell are they doing holding the qual?!
[quote=âPerry Masonâ post=7917]I doubt that adding the safety catch to the IA increases the threat of âwaving aboutâ - is a slight movement of the finger, not some exxagerated gesticulation!
![/quote]
Thatâs not what iâm saying Perry, it is the subsequent action that will result in waving barrels. Hence the Safety is applied as part of the IA.
Thatâs the way it is, so that how itâs taught and done, arguing the point seems pointless. It allows the top brass to say, that its âsaferâ because they put a safety catch on.
Riiight. That bullet travels at 930 metres per second at the muzzle (3051 feet per second, in old money). On a 25 metre range it hits the target 0.0267 seconds after the rifle is fired. Assuming it spends its entire flight time at its quoted muzzle velocity (which it doesnât, but it makes the maths easier), with a barrel length of 518mm the bullet spends 0.0005 seconds in the barrel. Thatâs 1/2000th of a second.
Given that human reflexes work at about 0.2 seconds between stimulus and reaction, it is impossible that the rifleâs position could change by an appreciable distance while the bullet is in the barrel.
⌠whether a charged magazine is fitted to the rifle when the bolt release catch is depressed. Nothing more, nothing less. No round in the chamber = no âBANGâ when trigger is pressed, be it accidentally or otherwise.
That said, cadets being physically unable to control their rifles and waving them around on the range indicates that they shouldnât have been passed on their WHT.
Yes the L85A1s were upgraded to L85A2s. However, the L98A1 was made completely differently to the L85A1 and as such the L98A2s are all brand new weapons and not upgraded L98A1s.
[quote=âPurfleetShibaâ post=8499]Yes the L85A1s were upgraded to L85A2s. However, the L98A1 was made completely differently to the L85A1 and as such the L98A2s are all brand new weapons and not upgraded L98A1s.[/quote]Then why do several in my armoury have UE serials? The Enfield factory had ceased to exist before the L98A2 was even an idea!?
L85A1s were upgraded to L85A2s, but some were clearly upgraded to L98A2. The L98A2 was never a new weapon, because Enfield and Nottingham plants were now housing estates or shopping centres, so UK production was impossible. Thatâs why this relatively small upgrade had to be done by H&K in Germany, and we know they were L85s because they bear London or Birmingham proof marks on the barrels as well as German ones (antler horn)
Nobody was going to upgrade a POS like the L98A1. Even the light use/ex ATC ones. Some ended up in US/Canada but various gun bans made ownership difficult, pointless and rather surprisingly very expensive as they had become more of a collectors curio than a respected, accurate weapon.
[quote=âGunnerâ post=25947]Missed the date on it but only THE Marksman would have quoted stuff like that, so Iâll take it itâs him. Pity he hasnât been around recently.[/quote]The HQAC death squad âoffedâ him for suggesting that some of them wereâŚSomewhat under par? Mediocre?
You are right: the dates donât fit. But this disastrous and unnecessary decision not to adopt the âEnsignâ semi-auto* was vindicated by some after the events at Hungerford. Point to note though: Ryan didnât actually kill anyone with his Chinese semi-auto, only with his revolver.
The ACF ballsed this one up. It seems that the committee, made up of representatives from all of the cadet forces was all in favour of a gas operated s/a weapon, but the ACF, who had the largest number of members of this committee were worried that the gas parts would not be cleaned properly. A pathetic excuse as this is simply a training issue which any cadet force should be able to step up to and deal with.
So thatâs how we ended up with an utter lemon and something that was an embarrassment to the name of Enfield small arms
[sup]
*Enfield/Royal Armouries/BAe marketed a semi auto rifle for police and private owners, albeit rather half-heartedly. The 1988 firearms act and the poor performance of the A1 in service killed it off very quickly[/sup]!
