That’s great Jonay, but there is no reference to L103’s. I see the part where it says L98A2.
I’m sure I have read somewhere that L103’s can be used as long as it doesnt affect Skill at Arms training… Anyone else know what I’m talking about.
I’m still on the hunt.
[quote=“merlin456” post=7025]That’s great Jonay, but there is no reference to L103’s. I see the part where it says L98A2.
I’m sure I have read somewhere that L103’s can be used as long as it doesnt affect Skill at Arms training… Anyone else know what I’m talking about.
I’m still on the hunt.[/quote]
If if stops you going crazy, I’m sure I read this too.
You are both correct, you have read that - in ACTO 43, Para 38:
[quote]L103A2 Cadet Drill Purpose Rifle
38. The L103A2 Cadet DP Rifle has been procured for weapon training purposes. It may be stored in Cadet Force Premises and may be used to conduct Initial Weapon Training (IWT) and Weapon Handling Tests (WHT) in the absence of L98A2 Rifles. It may also be used for ceremonial drill however this is not to prevent it being used for weapon training for which it was procured.[/quote]
my bold
Though, this seems to have been forgotten/ignored during the issue of the ‘new’ Arms Drill Policy. The line being pushed at ATF is that it’s L98 or “replica weapons” only.
Ha ha! So which do we follow…
Yeah ATF gave me the impression L98A2’s or replicas. But they also seemed very anti doing it anyway!
Yeah, we got that impression too 
As I understand it you need the foresight removed first by ‘Qualified Armourer’ even though it is part of the training to use and clean the weapon. If your DPs are like mine, then the foresight screws have been locked into place by the same bods who put the wheels onto cars at Silverstone and are pretty much impossible to remove.
I do remember an instruction somewhere (not part of the shooting policies) from when Arms Drill first started saying only the L98A2 was to be used for arms, I think to stop sqn using the old .303 or the No 8.
One thing I’ve been told is that apparently under the firearms act, the L98A2 can only be used by Cadets & SNCOs for target shooting on military ranges unless supervised by service personnel so you would need to have an officer supervise the SNCO teaching the arms drill - not sure if its true but apparently its linked in with the issues regarding SNCOs & CI transporting arms and ammo.
[quote=“wdimagineer2b” post=7028]You are both correct, you have read that - in ACTO 43, Para 38:
[quote]L103A2 Cadet Drill Purpose Rifle
38. The L103A2 Cadet DP Rifle has been procured for weapon training purposes. It may be stored in Cadet Force Premises and may be used to conduct Initial Weapon Training (IWT) and Weapon Handling Tests (WHT) in the absence of L98A2 Rifles. It may also be used for ceremonial drill however this is not to prevent it being used for weapon training for which it was procured.[/quote]
my bold
Though, this seems to have been forgotten/ignored during the issue of the ‘new’ Arms Drill Policy. The line being pushed at ATF is that it’s L98 or “replica weapons” only.[/quote]
surely a L103 is a replica L98, replicates everything apart from firing! lol
Specifies L98A2 as the wpn to be used, but seems “replica” wpns (of what kind?) are also allowed. No mention of L103.
Clear as mud then…
Interesting that ATF are no longer (officially) the SMEs for drill, with the reintroduction of AP818! I’ll be WO(ATF) is chipper about the fact that the WOs(ATC) (i.e. CACWO & RWOs) are now considered the official SMEs!
Never noticed that before. I’ll buy a pint to the first person with the balls to broach the issue with the gentleman in question!!
Cheers
BTI
Of course, it is possible that the author of the policy did not realise that DP rifles have a different designation to live rifles, and merely mean that the cadet weapon is to be used as opposed to the L85A2.
Out of curiousity who owns the policy/is the single point of contact when it comes it comes to Arms Drill?
Is it CACWO(for drill), Logs 2 (for Security) or TG5 (as its weapons)?
Or (with tongue firmly in cheek) is it the HQ Media Officer for when the wheels fall off and the loonies from the Gun Control Network and Mothers Against Guns start coming out of the woodwork 
?
This thread is blowing my mind in slow motion…
News to me? I’ve never seen anyone ever taught to remove the foresight from the rifle. Saying that, I’m not sure why it would take an armourer to do it (normally screws etc are painted red to signify: ‘Only an armourer may fiddle with this!’)
[quote]
Of course, it is possible that the author of the policy did not realise that DP rifles have a different designation to live rifles, and merely mean that the cadet weapon is to be used as opposed to the L85A2.[/quote]
I know I started a thread a while ago about L98A2 vs L85A2, but definitely in this case, what’s the difference?
Since it says ‘replica weapons’ and fails to then say what they should be a replica of, why not replica SLRs or replica AK47s or replica Klingon battle axes…?
I’ll do it.
All that aside, I still stand by my view that cadets aren’t Armed Forces and shouldn’t be doing Arms Drill on that basis.
Not a lot. Rules for the sake of rules!
I’ve never seen anyone ever taught to remove the foresight from the rifle. Saying that, I’m not sure why it would take an armourer to do it (normally screws etc are painted red to signify: ‘Only an armourer may fiddle with this!’)[/quote]
Well it’s in the lesson for the weapon so they should have been taught it. Not saying everyone has mind!
[quote=“tango_lima” post=7058](normally screws etc are painted red to signify: ‘Only an armourer may fiddle with this!’)
[/quote]
Amaze me, give us an example of one of these red screws you speak of…
[quote=“sirvicalsmeer” post=7064][quote=“tango_lima” post=7058](normally screws etc are painted red to signify: ‘Only an armourer may fiddle with this!’)
[/quote]
Amaze me, give us an example of one of these red screws you speak of…[/quote]
There aren’t any on the rifle. Hence the surprise at someone saying you need an armourer to take bits of it apart.
But they’re definitely there on SUSAT and CWS. Not sure what happens if you unscrew them, because I’ve never felt the need to.
The old “Only an armourer can remove the foresight and swap the sling loop” line has been pushed here too - by an armourer.
I don’t know why they’re being told that they are the only people permitted to do it…as has been said - it’s in the bloody Pam! Anyone trained can do it.
How are you supposed to remove the handguard (to clean if it’s gopping) without removing the sling loop?
[quote=“tango_lima” post=7065][quote=“sirvicalsmeer” post=7064][quote=“tango_lima” post=7058](normally screws etc are painted red to signify: ‘Only an armourer may fiddle with this!’)
[/quote]
Amaze me, give us an example of one of these red screws you speak of…[/quote]
There aren’t any on the rifle. Hence the surprise at someone saying you need an armourer to take bits of it apart.
But they’re definitely there on SUSAT and CWS. Not sure what happens if you unscrew them, because I’ve never felt the need to.[/quote]
There is no hidden meaning to a red screw. Whoever told you that was talking utter baulluex. Typical of an auggie.
[quote=“sirvicalsmeer” post=7071][quote=“tango_lima” post=7065][quote=“sirvicalsmeer” post=7064][quote=“tango_lima” post=7058](normally screws etc are painted red to signify: ‘Only an armourer may fiddle with this!’)
[/quote]
Amaze me, give us an example of one of these red screws you speak of…[/quote]
There aren’t any on the rifle. Hence the surprise at someone saying you need an armourer to take bits of it apart.
But they’re definitely there on SUSAT and CWS. Not sure what happens if you unscrew them, because I’ve never felt the need to.[/quote]
There is no hidden meaning to a red screw. Whoever told you that was talking utter baulluex. Typical of an auggie.[/quote]
What hidden meaning?
Red = do not play with this
The instructor was a regular.
In fact all three of the instructors who have, during lessons, pointed to the red screws on bits of kit and said “These are red. Do not touch them. Only someone who knows what they’re doing, like an armourer can touch them.” were regulars.
The screws on our rifle sights are definitely not red. Also, I might not be an armourer, but I know what I am going when it comes to removing the foresight.
Also #2, why would we not be trusted to remove the foresight but be trusted to strip the bolt carrier?
Not that any of this matters as being in the ACF I never see any armourers. They get our weapons for the inspection or when they are broken, that’s it.
I say again so you can understand this TL, there is nothing written in any AESP, AP or Pam that says red screws can only be touched by an armourer. There is no hidden meaning.