Is the RAFAC in a death spiral?

Im not going to contribute too much into this thread (well because its really obvious who I am ha)but want to ask a devils advocate Q.

How much of the issues stated do you think are legacy issues that previous leadership teams across all levels have failed to actually challenge and fix? now we have a CAC who is turning over every stone and is unearthing dead bodies that should of been dealt with over the last decade or so and its all come to light in a short amount of time.

Full disclosure some decisions i’m not a fan of all decisions but just a different perspective maybe.

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Not the case everywhere, some squadron’s near me simply never reopened or are still(!) to reopen. The amount of admin to reopen was just too much for a lot I suspect.

Absolutely. I don’t think it needs to be done as linearly as you suggest, but I think some financial investment is needed (e.g. a suitably sized IT team, consultants(?) for the syllabus, new HQAC training team staff etc) to properly fix a lot of the long-term issues we face.

Absolutely what is happening, it’s something that can’t be fixed quickly and isn’t easy. Although the decisions made and the way those have been communicated is a different story IMO.

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Yet he is still making decisions that are at best baffling, and at worst criminally negligent - as shown by the FOI that we’ve been recently discussing.

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But how many of those legacy staff and volunteers are still in post or since promoted?

The attitudes persist, problems aren’t being solved, and the fixes aren’t working. During which time, experienced people are leaving the delivery arm of the org.

Change journeys are a journey, and leadership needs the buy in of those they lead. If they lose the faith and/or respect of the people through their decisions, actions, inaction, attitudes, or especially pertinent in our case a lack of transparency, then they are failing and the organisation is suffering damage.

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The organisational culture presently appears to be that the higher ups are right and everyone else is wrong (anyone else reminded of Ms Trunchbull from Matilda).

I think the seniors believe they’re starting to change that with RAFAC Astra, but there are very few CFAV who this has reached. It has potential, but from what I’ve seen of it so far I can’t imagine it reaching that potential.

This means that shop floor problems don’t reach management. Partly because there’s no real mechanism to raise it (VOV will only ever go so far, as there are names attached) and partly because (IMHO) some seniors just see more junior CFAV as moaners & whingers.

My day job is organisational change and continuous improvement. I’d love to do some work with RAFAC on this to create an open and collaborative culture that focusses on strengths and a collective growth mindset, but the org has shown no evidence of being interested in such ideas, as far as I’ve seen.

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With that said, I’ve heard talk of a concept being developed akin to the RAF’s disruptive thinking programme, but with different terminology and implementation.

It would be a good start if true, but needs to be very publicly announced.

Like the middle management in the NHS, those in those management positions see no advantage in highlighting problems and in fact by doing so can be career limiting. Same problem in the NHS where this endemic.

I was a middle level person when I was in the NHS when I felt it was needed would send e-mails to the chief exec and chief nurse. Never made me popular and as an example, the recent furoar over recruitment in the RAF, a senior officer did what was right not what her seniors wanted her to do.

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Gotta remember some people see being a CFAV as a way to gain more power and prestige compared to their day to day life.

I’m sure if you offered a walt-like CFAV the chance to get a “proper” military rank, they’d take it.

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The number of times I’ve seen a senior officer in the military simultaneously publicly grapple with recruitment and retention issues while telling someone who was critical of the way the institution treats its people to “leave if they don’t like it”…

I don’t know enough to know if it’s in a death spiral, but I can tell you that’s a sure fire way to guarantee it’s demise.

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Looking at this from a different prospective. Who would choose to take on the poison chalice after the current boss :man_shrugging:t2:

It will take years for RAFAC CFAVs, and a number of Perm Sec, plus RAF to rebuild to a variable level.

The damage has been done, it’s now damage limitation until those in the organisation can turn it around.

Someone looking for an FTRS contract for 3 to 6 years, anybody who is a regular would have to be ordered to take it and all the potential career limiting factors as well.

Yes this is the point I’m making.

Given the low salary offered what kind of person would still find the role attractive?
Answer: the person you identified (i simply implied it)

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According to ACP20, civil servants (even in uniform with a different rank) are paid at the equivalent of Squadron Leader rank.

If a CFAV were to become a staff member, I’d expect they’d be defined as being a civil servant (though this is an assumption).

The lowest pay band for Sqn Ldr is £56k.

As a side note, CAC is on at least £113,470.

WExOs are not on nearly that much AFAIK.

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Correct - I am sure someone shared a WExO job advert on here in the past and was closer to £33k i seem to remember

I think historically it was RAFR officers so it was half pay officers.

Now it’s the civil service pay band that determines as you don’t have to be in uniform to be a WEXO. I think it’s circa 32k when I’ve looked.

Looking at this on the basis that WExO is an “EO” (Executive Officer) or D Grade looks like ~£30k is about right
(with the Admin assistants E1/2 topping out at £20k)


Source: Civil service pay | Institute for Government


source Grade structures of the civil service | Institute for Government

Wouldnt get out of bed for what they pay some of the WEXOs

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Especially considering some of the people they have to deal with.

Thats it…its a good salary for a office manager role…but the scope of their job exceeds 30kish

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