I’m DG qualified and when we ran Ammo Awareness Courses and Storeman Courses in my previous Wg, we didn’t get that much of a take-up. Maybe that’s changed now, I don’t know but what I do know is that previously, there were lots of bumping of gums in relation to movement of A&A viz qualified personnel and then very few actually attended when the opportunities arose!
when did that change?
i won’t pretend i keep up with all this stuff, but moving weapons and ammunition used to be, if not childs play, then at least something any reasonably competant unit could manage on its own.
when did that change?.[/quote]
When the army “misplaced” a load of bar mines on a train.
TBH I’m not 100% certain about the specifics (nor should we necessarily list them here) but the rules aren’t the same for rifles as they are for DG and the former may be type/quantity dependant.
To be fair, I haven’t seen anything to suggest that the Army was involved in the transport arrangements for those mines.
[quote=“talon” post=22621][quote=“incubus” post=22618]
When the army “misplaced” a load of bar mines on a train.
[/quote]
To be fair, I haven’t seen anything to suggest that the Army was involved in the transport arrangements for those mines.[/quote]
Reasonable point.
when did that change?
[/quote]
pass i just know we can turn up to our parent station with a couple of of 0.22 rifles in the back of car/SOV, rock up to the armoury and pull our their 4 x No8s and get a stern telling off if we want to put them in our SOV/personal car to transport them the half mile across camp to the range.
likewise with ammo (although i can understand that a bit more in that you need the “blast wall” (what do they call it?) so have a Hilux (oh and that requires a different familiarisation drive and it is more than a “car” in the eyes of MT) for two boxes of ammo)
when did that change?
[/quote]
pass i just know we can turn up to our parent station with a couple of of 0.22 rifles in the back of car/SOV, rock up to the armoury and pull our their 4 x No8s and get a stern telling off if we want to put them in our SOV/personal car to transport them the half mile across camp to the range.
likewise with ammo (although i can understand that a bit more in that you need the “blast wall” (what do they call it?) so have a Hilux (oh and that requires a different familiarisation drive and it is more than a “car” in the eyes of MT) for two boxes of ammo)[/quote]
Weapons can be carried in personal vehicles on public roads with prior authorisation if there has been an issue with getting service vehicles. We can at any rate!
access to the vehicles is never an issue, sometimes someone with a F/MT600 can be but never once the right people are found.
my point being Squadrons can arrive with personal cars or SOVs with rifles in the boot (movements all authorized etc) thus weapons in private vehicles on public roads travelling 30+miles across the wing to a parent station.
upon arrival pulling out the Station’s No8s we then HAVE to put them in a service vehicle or carry them the 0.5mile across camp to the armory.
the armorers get really shouty when we try to put their weapons in our non-service vehicles despite the existing cargo and then “in-the-wire” journey required.
more a nuisance and PITA than anything and 0.5 is a short distance but means we have to assemble to whole groups at the Armoury to have enough hands (Cadets) to carry all our weapons for the day
It isn’t just a PITA, it is a stupid, over-bearing, regulation that has little merit. The only argument I could see for this is if on the base, you stopped somewhere, other than the range, & one of the CIs (in civvies) started taking out L98s; someone might get a bit jumpy about a possible IS attack! 
However, as the transit of wpns on base is to/from armoury/range, I think we can discount that rather wild option!
Of course, for Service personnel going to a range off-base, the norm would be to leave the armoury in a Service vehicle. Houston, we have a problem!
I suggest that a dispensation is needed for cadet activities. It is ridiculous to transit with approved wpns off-base in civilian cars, but not to be able to use the same vehicle(s) on base.
[Back in the nasty days of the IRA, out in RAFG, we had dispensation to use civilian vehicles if MT not available - & to be live-armed!]
I bet they’ve all got clipboards, pens and hats, like all jobsworths. Never let commonsense get in the way of a rule, eh?
GHE2, one shouldn’t forget that despite what they might think of these silly rules personally, the armourers have been briefed to enforce them and if disobeyed, they would be putting their jobs and career prospects on the line. That’s the way it is in regular service.
certainly true, but in my long experience Armoury staff have been some of the most accomodating, helpful, constructive people i’ve met in the forces - MT and Man at Q&M’s were usually insufferably dull throbbers, Catering could go either way, and RMP/Snowdrops were incompetant vermin who attempted to get over their inability to do their own jobs by interfering in other peoples. they also tended to be branch/service that the highest number of female soldiers/officers on any base refused to be left alone with…
in this case, if the Armoury are being stroppy about something ridiculous, i’d firstly talk to them about it, and if that produced no joy i’d talk to Harry Staish - or, more correctly, i’d get the person paid over £100k a year to fight the ACO’s corner to have a chat with Harry Staish…
Is it though? A rule I mean. The JSP allows for the use of private vehicles to transport weapons on public roads. Why would there then being a rule saying that you then couldn’t use the vehicle once you arrived on MOD property?
Could this be a case of their rulebook being different to our rulebook in this context? We follow ACP26; the RAF don’t.
I know the ideal is for us always to use service transport to move A&A. That is dead easy to come by if you are an RAF armoury so their rules will be written on that basis. However, cadet units have more of a problem getting that level of transport so risk assessments have been done and our rules in our book are amended accordingly.