This can be said for the whole of the RAFAC and not just an act of remembrance.
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topic tangent but this has always annoyed me, or rather “ATC Sunday = Parade”
firstly it is in February, which is deepest Winter, and less favourable to November Remembrance parade (which is often cold enough).
Secondly why make it a parade?
I would much rather see an aviation themed museum visit or similiar made on ATC Sunday which is relevant and engaging to the Cadets than a “parade” or church service - that does not inspire the Cadets, it ticks no boxes on the “aims of the ATC” and is often completed with those outside the Squadron unaware of what is going on.
example, a neighbouring Squadron have in the past, assembled at one end of a quiet road (Cul-de-sac), Paraded (Marched) the length of it, then stood for some words from the Sqn Padre and CO then dispersed.
how is that in anyway useful to anyone?
any member of the public (Sunday morning dog walkers) have no clue what is going on or why there are a dozen cadets marching up the road, so doesn’t even achieve public engagement or attention.
Squadrons who put a church service or “parade” on for ATC Sunday are being lazy in my opinion why not do something the Cadets will enjoy?
this is what i have done year after year, with a rotation of museum making it different enough each year those who do attend each time have some variety.
should not be seen as anything too “formal” in my opinion, church service, parade or otherwise. make it fun and engaging for the Cadets that meets at least one of the aims of the organisation.
if not going somewhere (museum visit) have someone come to the Cadets, a guest speaker on the topic of Aviation, engineering, the RAF - a local war hero or public speaker.
(this is obvious a harder prospect to organise each year and so the “lazy” option is to fill the SOV with Cadets and go to the nearest “military” themed museum for the day
Hallelujah!
opps, probably the wrong phase in this topic…I mean good on you!
at our Battle of Britain parade there is a march to the Church for a service and march back.
there are two CFAV who attend who expect to burn up in flames if they cross the threshold of a church and so go to Costa for the 45 minutes, but some Cadets have joined them in the past when the option was given
with my RBL Hat on, this is what the ATC and ACF do at “my” parade.
after the 25-30 minutes service in the High St (welcome, wreath laying, hymns, silence, names read out and National Anthem etc) the whole parade marches to the church and are dismissed.
90 of the youth attending disappear from there (ACF, ATC, Scouts and Guides) it is only a few pews worth of Scouts and Guides who come into the church.
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Whilst it saddens me that so few choose to stay for the church parade, it’s absolutely right that they’re given the choice and up to the church in question to make itself more appealing.
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My Sqn doesn’t really do ATC Sunday (we predate it).
We have joined the local Sqn when the did a parade & church service but the specific minister was a good ATC Chaplain & always adapted the service to be more inclusive.
The cadets often enjoyed the drill & ceremonial aspects & took the service as a way of seeing something different, the one or two cadets plus staff who were adamant that they didn’t want to be part were able to wait in the ante room guarding the teas & coffees so not part of the “religious bit”.
Recently Battle of Britain has become only a church service so we’ve stopped going as a Sqn but advertised to the cadets if they wanted to join the other Sqn if they wished.
Thinking outside the box why not hold wing field/competition days on ATC Sunday.
Down side is the weather but it marks it in an official way rather than either a complicate military parade or a church service (often where the RAF or Cadet bit is tacked onto the standard Sunday service)
This is the bit that has bugged me when I’ve heard people talk about the status quo, generally. I had the same from a padre on my UCC (who offered nothing beyond asserting we should all have one for Christian nourishment and a trite “atheist conversion story” which exposed his contempt for the non-religious).
Not only do people need to be adamant about wanting alternate provision and feeling like a pain by doing so, but the alternate provision always sounds like a lame afterthought.
There shouldn’t be “alternatives” held for those who don’t want religious engagement when they attend a RAFAC event. It has nothing to do with our organisation.
Those who want to nurture their private religious beliefs should be doing so in their own time. They literally have an organisation for that.
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And no one has mentioned enrolment yet, although calling it an attestation andyou can omit the god but, it is still expected tbco by a religious representative.
There’s an alternative that omits “god” but a CO can do it & there’s nothing to say a cadet has to do it as part of a ceremony.
Done it a few times without padre & once or twice without a ceremony at all. Enrolment doesn’t have to be a service.
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I make a really big thing of formal enrolment, combining it with a first class graduation that parents attend.
I read the vanilla version for them all to repeat as one.
This is one of the weirdest things for a squadron commander to farm out, in my opinion.
I see it as one of my core ceremonial leadership responsibilities.
I agree and do the same. We are within ATC part of RAFAC so CCF may differ, our instructions are in ACP 20 inst 404 which clearly states what we should be doing and definitely includes a ceremony and a padre , However need to be careful we dont go off piste.
If true, I think that’s actually really relevant and something else to be challenged, as it would be a directive to involve a religious leader in a ceremony for cadets joining the organisation.
I think if our recruitment material said “join the RAFAC and your formal induction will involve a Christian vicar leading you through an oath”, it’d be a big turnoff.
To expect any 12-year-old to stand-up for themselves at a time they really don’t want to rock the boat is just unreasonable. I should know, because I didn’t, despite being quite sure of my lack of belief at that age (or 13, as was).
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I need to read but I think it’s suggested to be lead by the Sqn Padre and if not the CO.
So it’s directs at the most a specific member of Sqn staff.
If you don’t have Sqn padre then then the wing padre or its the CO so no borrowing the RBL Chaplain or the local parish vicar.
I think there’s a Sqn with a humanist celebrant padre as well (although that might be apocryphal but it’s why they are not Sqn “Chaplains” which are CofE
I tried that earlier this year and the wing chaplain blocked it, citing that a humanist would be “compromised” in such a role. No clarification given, but odd considering the claim that chaplains are there for all…
I have since re-tested, after a senior RAF chaplain confirmed that was not their view.
Though to be honest, I’m becoming more firm in my view that we shouldn’t have a special tier for “chaplains” of any sort.
I have a number of very well qualified staff with similar skillsets who are amazing at supporting cadets, and they’re there all the time, so they have a much closer bond with the cadets.
Chaplains/Padres are meant to be away from the chain of command and a good welfare source for the cadets, staff & Sqn Cdr
They are trained in the active listen, welfare & sign posting, can provide a good interest of coaching in pastoral leadership for cadets & NCOs & someone who the CO can confide in without judgement.
As humanist CO, it would be logical to have a humanist celebrant padre for that emotional support to your Sqn & still slightly separate from the general instructional team.
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What I’d probably advocate for is that the organisation form an MoU with a provider of counsellors or similar so all OCs can access a network of local support on an ad hoc basis (likely voluntary, for cost reasons).
The problem is that if we’re looking for genuinely accessible support staff, any sort of “Chaplain (Christian)” or “Chaplain (Humanist)” branding is instantly going to be a barrier.
This is ultimately why I think the model needs changing.
If you go to a counsellor or mental health professional on the street, their personal philosophical beliefs are nowhere to be seen, and that’s essential for being accessible, especially if you feel vulnerable and want to offload your views and now know that the person listening doesn’t share your philosophical outlook. It’s going to feel like a disingenuous exchange.
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That is genuinely quite shocking.
Having finally made provision for non-religious admittance to the organisation, why on earth were prayers (+ “the Lord’s Prayer”) not removed?
Unsure, but per our policy, our chaplins can only be from “a member of Churches Together in Britain and Ireland (which includes Presbyterian, Anglican, Episcopal, Roman Catholic, Baptist, Methodist and Congregational Churches)”. There is also a standard new chaplains induction format. Also all vrey God-y and prayer-y:
(This is meant to be done in front of all the cadets and staff)
Done so a few times & found them utterly useless.
Peer support networks like we have with TRIM practitioners at work works well because the person understands and can talk a little bit about their own philosophy making things more relatable & human.
The importance is that the individual providing the support is balanced, open & most importantly does not project giving the impression that works for them will work for the person seeking help - we also see this issue with the youth mental health first aiders were things are projected rather than used as an example.
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Very fair.