I’ve been in a foxhole with atheists and on other occasions sat with them as they died, and didn’t witness any sudden conversions in either scenario.
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But everyone’s different and you absolutely cannot hand on heart say how you feel and think about things until you’ve been there.
I to have been in this situation and seen the opposite, a temporary conversion.
Anyway, we’ve had this debate previously on a different thread.
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As an inverse a lot of cops have told me that they use to have faith /belief in a deity when they joined but after several years seeing humanity at its worse (possibly even worse than war fare) they couldn’t believe any higher power that was benevolent & shepherding of people.
But it differs for every individual & everyone defines “god /higher power/ natural order of the universe” on their own personal & unique terms.
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You could argue at length about how that came about, but more importantly, how the Church was more or less the local “control” for villages & towns across the UK in medieval times. Pay your tithes (or risk not being blessed or worse) - & you’d better get your babies baptised soonest or else they will be going to hell if they die early (not the best survival rate then).
Likewise, the church held their own courts - the monarchy felt that the church courts encroached too much into non-church matters, while the church wanted to spread their influence over the lives of ordinary people. There was a huge list of “moral” offences that would be tried before a church court - being a drunkard, swearing, slandering someone, beating your wife, trading on a Sunday, expressing heretical views, perjuring yourself, eating meat on a fasting day, & a biggie, not paying pay your tithes.
The peasants were of course all illiterate, so it was the rich & the church that effectively held all the power.
Not forgetting that You also had the Brexit of the day which was the split from Roman Catholicism & the creation of Anglican Church of England in the 16th century, the suppression of the former being less successful in northern England than the south.
You then had quakers, ranters & diggers which a lot of co-operative societies sprung from & in effect early proto-socialism along with the temperance movement & the abolition of slavery.
So when referring to the “privileged position” of Christianity that more accurately relates to the prominence of the CofE.
Whilst there is also a general reduction in declared follows of Christianity nationally, it can’t be assumed to be a uniform average spread & I imagine some area will be very high %, with others being very small % (although may have a majority of another religion)
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Turbo,
Please just stop. I’m not remotely interested in engaging with you now and will simply ignore you from this point onwards within the context of this thread.
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I will remind people of our AUP and that we will suspend or silence users who break it.
Surely this thread has run its course.
Going around in circles 
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Maybe, maybe not.
Every now and then we get a new, interesting angle that is worthy of discussion. And the wider point certainly isn’t done with, so it remains very much relevant — more to come.
I was interested by the use of the word activism up the thread. I really don’t think activism of any kind has a place in our volunteer uniformed service. There are plenty of other civil society groups that are better suited. I might offer the OP some reasonable challenge that instead of pursuing their own crusade on this matter, that they could spend their time on increasing their skills in support of our core activities “providing skills that will be useful in service and civilian life” Of course the OP could have every qual under the sun and be delivering a high quality training plan day in day out and in that case well done. But this does seem to be one individual’s pet cause driven by something quite deep seated that an internet commentator couldn’t possibly get to the bottom of
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The word activism was chosen as a way to distinguish between a mere “pushing of world view”.
Any attempt to achieve change can fundamentally be branded activism, so while I would partly agree with your sentiment, it’s a bit of rough label.
As an adult volunteer in this organisation, I’m also charged with looking after the interests of all my people equally, and so absent my significant efforts on this (in addition to all the other stuff being done on my unit), all my people, and those of other inclusive youth organisations in the local community, would have been stuck with the status quo and being treated as second class citizens.
The people who object, or say they aren’t personally bothered, need to ask themselves how they’d feel if the shoe were on the other foot, or it was something they did care about.
It’s easy to dismiss a call for change when you currently benefit (or don’t see yourself as affected negatively).
I’m doing what’s right, not what’s easy.
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+cough+ brexit +cough+
+cough+ any election +cough+
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Protests are kicking off in Syria after a Christmas tree was burned.
It is a cracking example of why we should create a protected, safe, and respectful space for all equally.
And again is my argument in favour of a secular event, rather than remaking it according to my own religious/non-religious world view and simply shifting the marginalisation to another group.
As the diverse and large umbrella identity of “Christian” continues to shrink in the UK, the best way to protect those who identify as such is to go secular and create a safe space for everyone regardless of what they believe, otherwise they could find themselves subjected to the same kind of marginalisation the non-religious have suffered in the UK.
I think there’s rather more of concern kicking off in Syria than the burning of a Christmas tree. I don’t think the Islamist rulers of Syria are particularly motivated to create a protected safe space
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I obviously don’t disagree, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a good example of how a secular approach protects minorities, as well as a majority.
In that regard, it’s highly relevant.
I am not sure if the ultimate aim is to remove religion entirely or have inclusive ceremony of Remembrance, currently at the London National Service of Remembrance, although led by the C of E Bishop of London there are approx 22 other different faith and belief groups represented at the outdoor service. I don’t have a problem with any faith/belief groups joining a service and would actively promote representation. To some way of thought, I agree there doesn’t necessarily need to have a full blown church service and a parade/wreath laying would be enough, however being inclusive is very subjective and would definitely depend on the demographic of your squadron. However on the other hand just because there are a lower active Christian representation does that mean we should be scrapping services when for some churches that have supported the community for over 100 years of services with packed out churches even to this day don’t have a say in the matter?
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I hear what you’re saying, but that’s having it both ways.
We can’t justify Christian ownership based on numbers and then switch to justifying Christian ownership based on tradition when the old justification runs its course.
We either accepted that premise or we didn’t.
The main public event should, in my view, be neutral and therefore accessible to all.
Places like Liverpool have tried the approach of everyone getting representation, but it becomes bloated (and still doesn’t reflect the true diversity, because there’s no end to the nuance you can try reflecting). It also means that people spend more time listening to leaders carving out their own niche rather than focusing on the actual event.
As a result, Liverpool has reverted once more to the Christian leader representing all religions. Still not going the right way, in my view.
It also annoys me when the powers that be bend over backwards to provide better representation for minority religions while continuing to disenfranchise the significant number of non-religious citizens. They know what they’re doing…
Of note, it would appear that the Army chaplaincy branch is now switching to a neutral cap badge on the basis that its existing one wasn’t inclusive of the various worldviews that comprise the formation. Whether you agree with that change or not, it’s clear that the chaplaincy understand the importance of making everyone feel like they belong…
Funnily enough you mention the Army chaplain, although i was chatting to a Navy one, he definitely prefers the idea of neutral cap badge and rank to discuss faith/be able to support on a personal level.
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The RN has a pretty novel approach with their system and removing rank from the equation.
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