Thats because he has been deployed, if you are home based you dont get TOIL, well kind of depends on your SNCO but its not the norm. Service instructors could be out all weekend with the cadets, they still go back to work on Monday morning the same as the rest of us.
Quite possibly
Iām only going on the information from the source i haveā¦
Myself and the other non VR(T) pilots give up our time free, no TOIL or extra pay. When we fly mid week we have to work through evenings and weekends to pick up primary duty work. We all do it because we want to give back to the cadets - where most of us came from. Pilots flying back in from weeks overseas on operational are in that weekend to do their bit. The staff and cadets we work with (nearly 2000 over last 6 months at last count) are all keen, engaging and an absolute credit to the RAFAC. Thankfully Iāve never encountered any of this āsilver wing raceā prejudice rubbish in real life, itās really stuff from the dark ages.
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BOOM ā¦ !!!
And the great majority of us volunteers thank you for your time and effort, I know that all of the cadets do. Thankfully the very very small minority are all keyboard warriors and confined to this waffle forum
Wasnāt aware that you didnāt get looked after by the parent service, my army service helper was always taken care of by his regiment! (I and many non-service personnel also get no support from our employer if that makes you feel any better!).
Iāve never seen a bad attitude from someone on an AEF and can only say nice things about those Iāve worked with. (Itās the system that annoys me not the people doing their best)
I have however had some shocking experiences with VGS staff looking down their noses at Squadron staff acting like their type of volunteering is somehow more important. (This I know swings both ways and is thankfully rarer now than it was 10 years ago).
@daws1159 i agree that 10 years ago it was a āThem and Usā. Times have changed and moved on. I hope as a result of the āPauseā and restructure that their attitudes have also changed, only time will tell. I hasten to add that the VGS i frequented were very good and engaging, i know that not all were as good.
Loving the debate guys, but some of you need to remember to focus on the system and not each other.
Winki
What do YOU do within the Corps, Winki? Are you on a Squadron making everything work all of the time or do you sit in the Ivory Towers with no real experience of life at the coal face, looking down on the rest of us?
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It was improving, until the massive bed wetting and sense of entitlement when the closures were announced.
Lol, yes it was ā¦ there were multiple teddy launches as I recall
Got to use those shiny new winches for something.
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Being a squadron āservicedā by 5 AEF, we have not had a successful flying detail with them since 2013, I know as I went and after that it was weather, lack of pilots and of course the move to Wittering, that couldnāt have been more badly handled if theyād tried.
Gliding again 2013.
So thatās 4 years without any cadets getting flying opportunities outside of what they might get at camp.
As I have stated previously I get involved with a less rigourously controlled youth group and had a group of them fly with a PPL I know and had a bloody good time, yet to do this with the ATC would see blood vessels rupturing and people of very little brain getting far too excited for their own good.
It is all well and good having mid-week flying details, but unless they are in school holiday periods, there is little chance of cadets getting the time off. The school I work in is part of a MAT (LEA have no influence) and time off in term time is verboten unless it is arranged by the school. We have a few pupils who are cadets and I know some have asked for time off for camps and been told no, even with CACs letter, it cut no ice at all.
So all in all unless the RAF show some real inspirational leadership and action in their speciality area of expertise ā¦ flying, as suggested by people, let us arrange flying locally and actually get the cadets into aircraft and actually developing the interest in aviation that is part of our core raison dāetre, rather than poncing around with flight sims and seeing it as a really good thing. Within an hour of where we live there are 6 flying schools to my knowledge (our AEF is 2Ā½ hours), not sure about gliding, and I am sure they would welcome youngsters with an interest and understanding of the theory of flight with open arms, I am sure that more cadets would take up flying as a hobby and potentially pursue it as a job. Plus I am sure there are ways cadets could help at a flying school to develop interest in other aspects of aviation, that the RAF doesnāt and never really has. There is more to aviation / flying than being a pilot.
All of the nay sayers are probably protecting empires and the like and stuck in an always done it like that rut. There does seem to be a lack of imagination in the Corpsā and elsewhereās management generally.
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Strange. āBack in my dayā it was seen as a valuable extra curricular activity, with maturity being shown in catching up with any work. Maybe a reflection of the relative āimmaturityā an total insecurity in todayās society. Obviously if youāre in the middle of revision or a busy period you may give it a miss but it is perfect for the younger members.
If theyād all say ānoā, maybe you arenāt selling the opportunity or the activity very well (previous known AEF issues notwithstanding).
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But many of us still do it in our own āfreeā time, i.e. We go to work all week and then still give up our time at weekends. Itās not like weāre making hundreds of hours a year out of it either.
No offence, but this attitude is not particular helpful.
Iāve experienced refusals to release cadets from school, simply because the headmaster is very anti-military.
Iāve had parents withdraw cadets from the sqn for months because they struggle to complete their homework.
Iāve had cadets refuse to go to AEF because the last time they went they sat in a crew room for 8 hours with nothing to do, and then didnāt end up flying.
The ATC has changed its policy to be more sympathetic to school work - we have to allow time off for study whenever requested, for example.
There are plenty or reasons why we canāt generate cadets for midweek sorties. Itās very rarely the fault of squadron staffā¦
Sadly it is sometimes easiest to point the finger of blame at Sqn staff when we are expected to take time off from our jobs to make the cadet āexperienceā happen.
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I think that a parental perspective has to be viewed wrt to flying / gliding, as with all cadet activities.
When we got a flying or gliding slot, parents were told meet at the squadron at x am and we expect to be home at y pm. Parents would then think great we can plan a day to do things and staff going would plan around it likewise ā¦ however what we found happening far too frequently was wrt flying it would get called off on Thursday (if we were lucky) but more so on a Friday due mainly to no / not enough pilots, so it was phone calls and people having to rearrange their lives. On occasion you would set off get to about half-way and phone to see if it was worth continuing, told yes only to get there and find it wasnāt happening, so a waste of a day, if we were lucky we would get told to go homeā¦ Likewise with gliding more and more problems were associated with winches and so again a pointless waste of a day, when a phone call could have prevented it. These call offs or sitting around getting bored in the back of beyond and so on meant we werenāt able to fill flying or gliding slots as cadets (and they arenāt stupid) could envisage a wasted day, that could be spent doing things with family, mates, doing homework or combination of these.
These āsuperā VGS will be no different realistically. Theyāll involve a lot of sitting around and rather than wasting a day you could end up wasting a weekend. Which BTW I would leave no later than 11am on a Sunday (if itās more than an hours drive) as cadets have school the following day and I would have work, which especially faced with probably a 2+ hour drive home, Iād want to be home by mid afternoon. Iāve in the past done too many flying and gliding days where you donāt get home until early evening, when itās effectively eat, sit down for a little while and go to bed.
There seems to be a suggestion that staff are anti-aviation / flying, no I get a sense people are anti just plugging away with a system that is at best very fragile and subject to the whim / factors outside of their control or is completely broken and what they want is something that works and with better accessibility and if that means not getting caught up in the myth around the supremacy of military flying so be it. A question to consider ā¦ how many people in the UK qualify and do their flying each year outside of the military compared to inside the military?
Cadets can spend a day at the AEF/ VGS and still do some study.
Iāve offeredāquietā rooms at squadron to cadets who wish to study whilst waiting to fly.
Appreciated, close to exams, cadets or parents might prefer to avoid the activity?
We all know that thereās a lot of down time for cadets and staff, particularly when at AEF, but this time could be used more effectively if a little thought goes into it?
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So, if AEFs and VGS were to close tomorrow, and alternatives arranged with CAA Flying clubs and BGA gliding clubs, are you seriously suggesting the issues of pilot availability or aircraft/equipment serviceability would be any different? What do you think the advantages of a system like this would bring?
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Iām sure there are. Iām sure with enough effort and engagement from the right places many barriers could, to an extent, be removed.
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