I do understand that and I fully understand that we couldn’t survive if there wasn’t one or more to hang out to dry. However what I was trying to convey was that with the RAF contracting have / do / will they have sufficient personnel and have they / are they / will they be able to commit sufficient funding, (ie for people doing the work, not some to sign it off) to ensure that the gliders and ancillaries are kept flying/working, be that programmed servicing or ad hoc requirements.
I’ve forgotten how many gliding details have been hampered by gliders and winches that are u/s and have been for more than a couple of weeks and you get a real sense of despair at the VGS that relatively simple things are not prioritised until they become major things. Before anyone says, yes I appreciate it isn’t easy but then sometimes it isn’t, BUT I believe most of the problems are due ultimately to insufficient funding.
I do feel if it was contractorised you would as part of the contract stipulate call out timings, timings for work to be done etc in the SLA and cut the majority of the delays. You at least then have some degree of control over things.
If it was contractorised?
Serco do all the aircraft engineering through their regional teams.
All MT are white fleet (apart from winches) managed through contractors serviced at a local garage.
winches are serviced at parent station MT who are mostly contractors.
there just is little comeback from logistics at HQAC when it all goes wrong.
As Prune mentioned, the issues with the gliders at the moment are most definitely not of HQAC’s making, they are as a result of assurance work undertaken by the RAF. I’m not having a dig at your comments GHE2, but to understand what is happening/has happened with respect to the ACO’s glider fleet, you really need to appreciate the whole military Air Safety/Engineering/Duty Holder construct post Haddon-Cave. Much of what happens with respect to safety and assurance activity on the RAF’s aircraft was going on before anyway, but a lot of it wasn’t linked with proper, accountable, lines of responsibility; having an operator as the individual ultimately responsible for safety has also focussed interest. Years ago, it was the good old Eng O who would put his signature to an aircraft release document and it was he/she who could have ended up in front of the Coroner if something went wrong. The Eng O may still be there now, but so will several others!
The contract for Glider Maintenance will also not be directly with HQAC, they do not have a Commercial Branch; it will either be with the Training Aircraft PT or 22 (Trg) Gp through HQ Air Cmd. As we know, our HQ is undermanned for what they are already expected to do, so you’re right, asking them to take on formal commercial work probably isn’t wise.[/quote]
The contracts for the all the training fleet is with the Training Aircraft PT reporting to 22 Group.
Few! Nice to see it’s a decent Sim. I had visions of this…
http://www.raf.mod.uk/aircadets/membersinfo/games.cfm
looks like stock FSX which can be upgraded globally using OrbX Global and the regional packages.
REX for the weather textures too.
[quote=“Jonay1990” post=18641]looks like stock FSX which can be upgraded globally using OrbX Global and the regional packages.
REX for the weather textures too.[/quote]
Geek alert 
Plenty of good shots of the sim in this video clip! Good PR for the ACO too
That looks nothing like the one which was put out at the ACO Convention for us to play on (and on which I had a few circuits - quite nice).
That one was single-seat, and based on XPlane, and we were told they would all be XPlane based. Also it had nice custom Cranwell scenery and I was told all major gliding/training sites would be included. PLus, it had an instructor control panel top left.
By the way, the briefing from OC 2FTS at the same event also stated that it wasn’t just a paperwork issue. Unauthorized ‘improvements’ to essential aircraft systems had been discovered - the sort of thing which needed approval as a major or minor mod, but hadn’t been, just ‘improved’ by individual mechanics on their own authority.
jeez, I thought that we had got past stuff like that. Unauth ‘improvements’ by individual tradesmen were the bane of my life when I was an ‘Eng Authority’ and a chuffing nightmare to sort out.
[quote=“tmmorris” post=18659]That looks nothing like the one which was put out at the ACO Convention for us to play on (and on which I had a few circuits - quite nice).
That one was single-seat, and based on XPlane, and we were told they would all be XPlane based. Also it had nice custom Cranwell scenery and I was told all major gliding/training sites would be included. PLus, it had an instructor control panel top left.
By the way, the briefing from OC 2FTS at the same event also stated that it wasn’t just a paperwork issue. Unauthorized ‘improvements’ to essential aircraft systems had been discovered - the sort of thing which needed approval as a major or minor mod, but hadn’t been, just ‘improved’ by individual mechanics on their own authority.[/quote]
So none of the sims are the same just like the aircraft.
Shame the part about 30% of the VGS not wanting to be supervised by anyone was edited out now I can’t point out the whole 1EFTS 3FTS supervision under the DDH construct that’s been going on for years, then again that’s been mentioned before. Its definitely not like the VGS world has been running rogue for years and 2FTS and regional AFIs are the saviour of all ills, the inspection regime is fairly intense, the willingness to actually pay out for the improvements these inspections highlight however has been lacking for ages. If 2FTS/HQAC can’t do anything about that there is little that can be improved on.
Sorry, I thought it was a bit inflammatory and ill considered…
Latest iteration from OC 2FTS reads -
Update in pause in Gliding
The RAF Syerston recovery team, continue to focus on delivering airframes for a return to flight. The team continues to wait for answers from external agencies and some of the responses may commit the team to further work. As previously stated this uncertainty makes accurate predictions of any dates to return to flight challenging at the moment. Whilst we wait for airframes, the return to flight contingency plan is complete.
In the interim, an initiative is in hand to provide limited gliding to cadets. We are investigating the feasibility of providing gliding scholarships for cadets (100 approx) similar to the light ac scheme, via the RAFGSA. It is intended to fund this initiative by the GPF and the scholarships will be based on private arrangements between parent /guardian and the RAFGSA. There will be no formal involvement by the ACO apart from providing non public funding from the GPF for the gliding instruction.
Although the delayed pause will understandably frustrate and disappoint some, you will appreciate I will always err on the side of safety. My priority is always to provide a gliding operation where any risk to aircrew and cadets is removed or is mitigated to an absolute acceptable minimum. Sadly,I am unable to move forward until I have all the questions answered. But in the longer term, I am confident the ACO Gliding Community will come out of this pause as a better organisation.
Outsourcing Gliding Under Local Arrangements
To give some clarity on any proposed local gliding arrangements Wings, Sqns and cadets should note gliding outsourced without endorsed HQAC ACO involvement, is a private matter between the parents /guardian and the individual gliding club. There can be no involvement by the ACO/, Wg or Sqn staffs. No T&S claims or any other support should be made from any public source. This should be made clear to the Gliding Club concerned. No uniform or “cadet involvement” is to be part of the arrangement. The MOD and Aircadets have no responsibility whatsoever over the private arrangements entered into by the Gliding Club and Parents/ Guardian. There is to be no involvement by Wg, ACO or Sqns. I hope this clears any ambiguity.
OC2FTS
Doing for Gliding what he did for North Region
They aren’t all grounded!
[attachment=172]IMG_1273144022555.jpeg[/attachment]
in the context of the ‘paused’ gliding, that photo gave me the best laugh I’ve had in ages. thanks.
Heard from a reliable source that the pause may be longer than a pause. It could be next year before all VGS get their A/C back. There is an issue with the repairs the GRP airframe; every one will have to be assessed.
Even under the original plan it would have been unlikely to see all VGS with all their aircraft before the end of the year. Now as JM has said in his “update” they are still waiting on external agency information the first aircraft being released has started to slip to the right delaying the core training delivered to get everyone current again.
Every aircraft would have to be assessed anyway if it has grp repairs or not, just some ac might be more trouble than others.
Latest update in GROs first five airframes released around “mid October” and full capacity pushed “well into 2015”.
Which is nice :dry:
Yet another farcical situation with which to attract cadets! Come flying (wait you can’t), come gliding (wait you can’t), come and do fieldcraft (wait you can’t), go shooting (wait that’s nearly impossible).
Makes me wonder why I bother.
You don’t want to decry the people doing the work, but there does seem to be a lack of urgency about this. It’s comes across as a blase attitude displayed by all concerned.
I can’t remember if the 50000 cadets by, IIRC, 2018 is still on the go, but this isn’t going to help one little bit, especially when you add in all the other little bits. It’s almost worth not bothering with an intake until this time next year and with natural wastage go down to c.12 cadets, because doing any promotional work is almost pointless. Get lots of shiny faces in for an intake and basically have to lie through your teeth about our USPs.
It’s all about re-establishing the baseline airworthiness of the aircraft, physically and documentarily, and you simply cannot rush that, not if you want to do it properly, accurately and safely.
Unfortunately, it’s probably blasé attitudes by others historically that got the glider fleet in the mess it’s in now.
Haddon-Cave and Nimrod spring to mind; so does rushed, overlooked, shoddy, ineffectual and amateurish technical staff work in the past, which people are now working hard to address.