Gliding "paused"

Not at all. The concept of an organisation that helps youths progress onwards & upwards is not a problem. The concept of mis-management & assocIted waste is entirely different.

Don’t underestimate the stupidity of the general public.

Yesterday’s big story seemed to be Jimmy Saville and potential culpability of the BBC.

So something that’s been done to death already IMO would be more appealing to the average chav in the pub or tea bar, than something they wouldn’t care less about ie cadet gliding wouldn’t even register. There were lots of discussions about Jimmy Saville at work yesterday and already again this morning.

Good day for the MoD/RAF/ATC bury bad news? Most definitely.

True - but how the story is flagged up (& in which paper) would give the appropriate balance.

If this hits the pages of say the Guardian or the Telegraph, then it would give a much more “balanced” review than compared with the Stun! Of course, there is the media hack’s dream element - thousands of youths disadvantaged by the actions (or non-actions!) by mandarins in their ivory towers. Expand on the poor youth “human aspect” by adding stories about those cadets who have saved lives because of the first aid skills taught to them, etc, etc. Add to the pot that a very high percentage of cadets have gone into the Armed Forces*** to help defend the Realm - all the mums would be weeping at the article! Even the most junior news reporter could hash together a very lucid story that would keep the public “on-side” with respect to cadets, but slate the upper echelons; there is a surplus of ammunition.

*** Can’t remember the exact figures given from a presentation last year, but for the RAF, some 60% or more of serving officers were a member of the ACO. Even for the Army, it was above 50%!! :wink:

Also it would highlight to parents exactly what we’ve been up against and from the experience we had when our children were at school and things not going quite to plan, parent pressure and annoyance trumps everything else.
The headmaster didn’t know what hit him when confronted by a group of non too pleased parents.
In these days those of a mind could create havoc on FB etc and this would get into the press as the journos don’t have to leave the office; copy, paste a bit of typing story sorted. Apparently there is a FB page for our local school and if the school does or doesn’t do something, all hell breaks loose.

The scrapping of the aircraft carriers and nimrod got the headlines for about an hour, then a rock star had a baby so everybody forgot. Mr Jenvey you are great value for money.

If you look at your local paper, whenever there are cuts to services etc, the local councillors always spout about cuts to things that affect kids, OAPs, education, health and things that make life a little more awkward, as such while making a ripple in the military circles things like the Nimrods and aircraft carriers aren’t seen as important. If you could put the old/young angle on them much more appealing.

In this respect we tick things affecting kids and education to an extent.

Although the back story I was told about the Nimrods was yet another insight into grossly incompetent project management in the military.

We aim to please. :wink:

As a cadet, I was lucky enough to be awarded a gliding scholarship; that probably helped me to get my flying scholarship (the 30 hrs) - which almost certainly helped me to Jon the RAF, & achieve my aim to be a pilot. Thereafter, that military experience allowed me to move forwards with my current civilian career. I loved flying & shooting (3 Cadet 100 badges too!); being a cadet, with all the flying options got me where I am today. It’s the same for the shooting, (NRA national-level instructor) but the gliding is the focal point at the moment.

That’s why I find this situation so frustrating. The curtailment of gliding has been an example of how not to handle a problem. I bet it has put off numerous high calibre cadets from joining the Services - no doubt with input from their parents about not letting them join an organisation that can’t organise the equivalent of a drinking party in a beer-making establishment…

Hang on, the the new Chief of the Defence Staff is a former CWO at 425 Sqn. Anyone got his number and I’ll give him a tinkle and ask him to pull some strings. The situation is that much of a farce that it may be a viable option. I’m sure a bottle of fine vintage could bring him on board!

I’m not convinced the proportion of the population who believe anything the see in the press would necessarily see it that way. That’s quite a large proportion too.

(Having listened to some recordings of some Scottish voters being canvassed on R4 this morning, I’ve lost all faith in our electoral system!)

Sir Stuart isn’t in post as CDS until summer, but this gives some contact details:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafrugbyleague/contacts/seniorcommittee.cfm

Go for it!!!

I’d like to think he’d be bothered by our plight…I suspect I may be being optimistic!

I think you will find he is well in the mix already on this one :slight_smile:

Doesn’t mean anything will change. It would be nice to think it’s important to them, but probably not given what has been allowed to happen unquestioned and the ATC is a non-operational part of set-up.
This whole affair has been marred with the sort of poor leadership in terms of project management that is seems to endemic and rife within the MOD and unfortunately many senior officers will regard what has happened with this as normal if not a tad regrettable before they go back to quaff another tipple of choice in the bar.

You can see with his as an example of the sort of shambolic processes and procrastination that means MOD projects run over budget and over their supposed timespan. The model is broken and needs to be fixed (not just for us) and it is the senior Officers within the MOD that sit around tables deciding this/that that are in a position to affect the changes necessary. But I doubt there is any will to do so.

For me the process should have been
Apr 14 - crap we have a serious problem
May 14 - investigate extent of problem
Jun 14 - sealed bid tenders for the contract (contract details fixed timescales for % of gliders returned to service, 100% 18 months, with financail penalties for non completion of each stage and bonuses for earlier completion) also assign VGS instructors to civvie gliding establishments and seek alternatives to provide 'cadet experience’
Jul 14 - award contract for fixing gliders
Quarterly progress checks
In this time as gliders become serviceable, returned to VGS and VGS instructors retain currency. Once at 50% establishment for gliders and instructors recommence cadet gliding on a phased return.

I’ve worked on projects which have been linked to our performance bonus and that provides a more than adequate focus, not only for individuals but also the team. There is a very real sense that within the MOD there is nothing like this as the Officers supposedly in charge will be posted and promoted regardless of what actually happens.

Quote -
“For me the process should have been
Apr 14 - crap we have a serious problem
May 14 - investigate extent of problem
Jun 14 - sealed bid tenders for the contract (contract details fixed timescales for % of gliders returned to service, 100% 18 months, with financail penalties for non completion of each stage and bonuses for earlier completion) also assign VGS instructors to civvie gliding establishments and seek alternatives to provide 'cadet experience’
Jul 14 - award contract for fixing gliders
Quarterly progress checks”

Very simplistic view of how the MOD system works, if only it was that easy. People can go on about things happen in the outside world, but it just doesn’t happen within HMG organisations.

Whilst it might be a “wish list” for the ideal process, certain elements should have been actioned (or anticipated) in a much, MUCH faster timescale especially with regard to an equally simpler diagnostic engineering input.

We are not talking about a world-wide commercial aviation fleet, requiring complex engineering solutions with international legislative oversight for imposition of fleet-wide “must be actioned in XX weeks” fixes.

For the contractual aspects, we wouldn’t be in this predicament if the required standards & oversight had been actioned. So, Stage One - existing contractor - can you fix, timescale XXXX, yes or no (penalties or planned cessation of contract for breach of conditions if needed). Yes = crack on. No = breach of contractual conditions, goodbye. Tender appropriately - with safeguard conditions inserted by MOD procurement to establish relevant engineering baselines, timelines, whatever.

Even taking into account the possible intricacies linked to MID procurement etc, we are rapidly approaching the 2 yr point. This should have been, at the very most, a one year fix in order to have a significant number of gliders back in the air.

If it doesn’t work like that why not?
It’s how we would approach the situation at work, with considerably shorter timescales.
Outside it’s not taxpayers money you waste it’s potential profits, bonuses and dividends and unlike HMG there is bottom line accountability. Because there is no bottom line accountability, procrastination and faffing around is the order of the day. If they’d had a Chairman or CEO who had to face shareholders to explain why it’s taken so long and where’s the money gone, breathing down their neck, things would be different.
Outside the MOD the muppets we’ve had running this would have been litter picking in the park long before now and not collecting (they’ve not earned a sou) good 5 figure salaries.

According to CAC Facebook page an update with ministerial approval on the glider recovery is due next week

Well, if she’s not made an announcement before 24 Feb, I’m due to be sitting next to her at a dinner (and as I’m doing the seating plan…)

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It’s a shame OC 2FTS won’t be there as well. That could be a great conversation starter!