And this won’t help the situation -
Not sure it will make that much difference, if we stopped gliding every time the BGA stuffed one in we’d never fly at all.
it was the RAF CAMO team that has been finding/still finding the problems
See you in September…maybe :crying:
Have you seen the latest from OC2FTS -
“My intent, subject to meeting the currency fleet requirement, is to have a limited return to cadet gliding by Sep 14 at the earliest.”
The whole thing will be as an announcement on Bader Sharepoint!
The frustrating part is the vagueness of the dates for recommencement.
We had this when the Tutors had the prop problem, as it seems they hadn’t factored in getting pilots current. :ohmy: So with this I realsitically read JAN 15 at the earliest, because unless they have sufficient aircraft available by July, there won’t be enough pilots current to start in September.
What our lords/ladies don’t actually appreciate is that we at squadron level have to manage the expectations of 13-15 year olds who have joined an organisation that uses flying to sell itself. They can issue directives etc etc but it doesn’t escape the fact that many of us will have cadets who have been in for 18 - 24 months who will have never flown in the AIR Training Corps.
Thats not really the whole announcement though, this is;
PAUSE IN GLIDING UPDATE 23 MAY 14
You will recall I promised to update you on the activity being undertaken to recover Air Cadet Gliding. This note outlines the current position as of Fri 23. Any changes will be forwarded to you via BADER. As one of the people responsible for the control of Gliding, the safety of glider aircrew and cadets is my paramount concern. So when a recent review identified some challenges that called into question airworthiness of both the Viking and Vigilant glider fleets, I quickly made a recommendation to AOC 22(Trg) Gp that we pause ACO gliding whilst we address the issues.
We now have a fix and sustain plan, to be followed by a phased return to flight. Our priority, with safety underpinning all our decisions, is to deliver a small fleet of gliders, based at RAF Syerston to address staff currency .Once this activity is underway we will then cascade our activities out to individual VGSs. On current planning assumptions we are targeting a currency fleet for early July. My intent, subject to meeting the currency fleet requirement, is to have a limited return to cadet gliding by Sep 14 at the earliest.
To address the shortfall in gliding opportunities in the shorter term we are looking at providing further flying opportunities from the main stream RAF. AOC 22(Trg) Gp is seeking opportunities from other Groups in the RAF. The Director of Flying Training is examining the potential for further AEF Flying. Also we are attempting to accelerate the VGS glider simulator program and develop a glider training package that will allow you to undertake representative simulator training on the recently delivered RAC simulators.
Although the pause will understandably frustrate and disappoint some, you will appreciate I will always err on the side of safety. My priority is always to provide a gliding operation where any risk to aircrew and cadets is removed or is mitigated to an absolute acceptable minimum. In the longer term, I am confident the ACO Gliding Community will come out of this pause as a better organisation.
A further update will follow on BADER in due course.
OC2FTS
Would be interesting to know the depth/scope of the “challenges that called into question airworthiness.”
For example, is it a paper audit trail that doesn’t show that relevant checks or inspections have been made (even although they were completed), or, the other end of the scale, incorrect or unsafe maintenance?
If they have to do the equivalent of a modern commercial aircraft “C” or “D” check on each airframe, that will be a lot of work.
i have heard through colleagues who speak to VGS pilots 2FTS asked 3FTS for FormXYZ for the fleet as part of the handover…
3TFS haven’t ever used form XYZ and therefore what that form indicates cant be proven!
i am not sure if it is a case of the work has been done but the paperwork wasnt followed up, or something else but it would seem the SOP for 3FTS doesnt match that of 2FTS expectations if what i have heard is true!
According to the ‘well placed’ chaps that I’m working with at the moment, the whole cadet flying system is rather a mess…
My understanding is that all Vigilants & Vikings will undergo a complete inspection.
As to the background, if it is all aircraft, then that would probably point at audit paper trail difficulties.
Imagine you buy a ton of cars from a company which have been running them fine for the past several years and maintaining them to a high standard. However they are all missing their MOTs, everyone knows they’re completely road ready but dont have the little piece of paper to say so.
This is essentially what has happened, all the aircraft essentially need a “MOT”.
And imagine if there was an accident and it later came out that the aircraft was missing its “MOT” there would be a huge lawsuit and public outcry.
Add to this scenario that the ACO is a teeny tiny player in the manufacturers world and we suddenly don’t rank high in the priority list. September is only an update point. Not return to normality.
Fantastic.
The MOT explanation seems to be doing the rounds alot seems to fall down on the points of.
a) if you lose the MOT certificate you just check the online record and everybody is happy.
b) if you’ve never had an MOT recorded, you do an MOT in about an hour pays your £50 everybody is happy.
so should be able to crack out 8 airframes a day if its just like an MOT, or is it not like an MOT at all and much much deeper than that? :ohmy:
MOT = CoA = Certificate of Airworthiness
my OCD is kicking in everyone calling it an MOT
(although i understand why!)
thats why i used “MOT” in quotes. At CGS they managed to do 1 airframe in 2 weeks so it will be a long slog but hopefully staff flying will hopefully pick up sometime after july so cadets could hopeful be flying by September
And thereby lies the problem, it doesn’t. MoT is a condition check only, CofA is a condition check and a comprehensive audit trail examination. Airworthiness and the manner in which MoD has approached it over the last couple of decades is what resulted in the establishment of the Military Airworthiness Authority (MAA) in the wake of Haddon-Cave. As a result, a lot of stones are being turned over, dusty corners swept out and skeletons being found in cupboards. What may have been custom and practice 10 years ago is no longer acceptable in today’s regulatory climate.
exmpa
[quote=“glass half empty 2” post=18525]
We had this when the Tutors had the prop problem, as it seems they hadn’t factored in getting pilots current. :ohmy: [/quote]
Not quite that simple, as there are lots of people flying the Tutor, and certain groups have to take priority over others, and all the factors that can affect that decision. The Tutor was also far more difficult as there was a distinct change in the aircraft so it wasn’t just a case of re-establishing currency, but a series of sorties to establish competence with the changes and then regain safe flying currency. I could easily take more than a week to do for a regular pilot, so factor in the part time nature of almost all AEF pilots and it would always be a challenge.
The whole thing is frustrating, but “sadly” it’s a new world of safety we have to operate in.