Just seems to be lots of moaning, it has been a very long time but things seem to be clearing although we still have a way to go. The Vikings seem to be looking up. The CFAV’s seem to be keeping busy and hanging in there from what I have seen?
Sure you’re not another poster here in disguise? 
Er, no to all of the above. “Things seem to be clearing” - what things, what clearance to do what & when? CFAVs are certainly not happy with the situation - & more importantly, neither are the cadets. We have had 4(5?) intakes of cadets with no ACO flying or gliding (compounded by the 5AEF situation at Wittering - no weekend AEF until Mar 2016, one year without AEF for some).
*Yes, Cadet Bloggs, you went on Pre-GS Trg Cse 12 months ago…when is the gliding going to be operational in order for you to use your knowledge & trg from the cse??? Sorry, I’ve got absolutely NO idea, there has been little or no feedback to the sqns.
Had this been related to a commercial organisation & flying, they would have gone bust a year or more ago, with managers losing jobs before the bigger axe fell on the company. It has been farcical, to put it politely.
You said it Mike, “if this was a business” we all just need to wait and see what happens in Jan/Feb. I know some people on a VGS they are frustrated but still serving the wider ACO and just getting on with it. I am sure the AOC and CAS will give 2FTS the cash and support they need. You know some Vikings are flying right? the start has started which has to be positive, keep smiling and hopefully the cadets can get stuck into some good stuff in the mean time.
I am just trying to get all the moaning about stuff most do not understand out the way. It is such a shame but it is what it is.
you are OC2FTS, and i claim my £5. litterally hundreds of messasges of support etc… so useless they can’t even make up a decent sock puppet (those reading will know what term i want to use, but apparent w@nk sock isn’t allowed…).
if this was a business, those involved would merely have been sacked or made redundant when the company folded - however this is, as you have noted, not a businees, its the Royal Air Force, where such spectacular incompetance and negligence does not just result in a bimble down to the job centre, but in Courts Martial, in prison sentances, in people (well, almost people…) being stripped of their commisions.
The average cadets career is between 18 months to 2 1/2 years. Some don’t stay after a few weeks and some stay until Uni, career or 20 years old.
Now the majority of cadets on my sqn have never been near a glider let alone fly in one. Also being on the edge of the world(what some people see as West Wales) we are likely to be one of the last areas to get VGS back in operation.
End result is that cadets will never have been up in a glider. Then the aircraft are finally in operation I will have cadets who are 18, 17, 16, 15, 14 and 13 3 months and over who have never flown VGS. A four year back log to get through. Who do you pic? Will there be 30 slots for each sqn just to get the cadets some AEG. No there will be months of getting staff current, or perhaps not. Talking to my local VGS The Staff have nothing to do and are not sucking it up as you say they are doing something else. Volunteering is a habit Many VGS staff have lost the habit.
When the A/C come back the VGS’s will be short on experienced staff and without staff cadets as the current staff cadets will have aged out and gone to uni or the RAF. I fear and this is a personal feeling the ATC as a gliding organisation will cease to be in its current form as many VGS will fail to recover and the corps will have to rationalise units just to get enough staff together to have a viable Sqn. The was I fear it is going my VGS will be based in Hulavinton and some units in my wing will have a six hour round trip to get to its “local” VGS. A gliding will be a shadow of its former self.
Love it, I am not OC 2FTS. I am on your side its all very rubbish. The issues that have grounded them are historic just so you know. The length of time to get going is a real shame but I am not sure it is all 2FTS’s fault. And no I do not work in 2FTS.
You are all clearly missing so much information which is not your fault.
As I said keep smiling, the VGS staff seem to be sticking with it but then I assume they may be more informed than the wider community.
Who grounded the fleets, do you know Angus?
On another note, does anybody know if the VGS’s have their simulators yet? I know a couple do and I think my cadets would enjoy a look at one close up. Linton in particular.
There is no back log, I see it as a complete reset. Start a fresh as you say fewer sites but better facilities I am told and beds so cadets can spend the weekend? I watch a few VGS’s on facebook and I know a couple of guys up north and they seem to be as committed as ever, as well as better gardeners and partners, parents so I see your point about getting back into it when the time comes.
Please tell that to the cadets & CFAVs, I can imagine the responses…
For the appropriate circumstances, centralised resources can be an advantage. This is not necessarily the case for the VGS, They are the providers, but the users to be able have to get to them & enjoy productive gliding. Overnight accommodation is all well & good, but not for those cadets or CFAVs who can only give up one day. Logistically, centralised resources could make gliding less achievable than before.
You are all clearly missing so much information which is not your fault.
Please spill the beans so we are all up to date with everything, it can’t be any worse than the current dearth of communication.
How very mature…
Sorry, missed that earlier - considering the debacle so far, the meme is quite polite & mature enough to make what most CFACVs see as a fair comparison. Considering (& this is by no means an exhaustive list) the poor communication, possible issues concerning over-sight of any previous contractual maintenance (otherwise we wouldn’t be in this predicament), protracted timescale to achieve a solution, inability to provide a Plan B (not even sure about Plan A!), & rumours of alleged disdain towards CFAVs &/or their opinions, how else would you describe things please??
They should pull the plus on gliding now (a decision which should have been made 18 months ago when they realised it wouldn’t be a quick fix) and stop urinating the money up the wall. Rewrite the ACTO and use the funding to provide gliding through civilian clubs. (It’s good enough for flying scholarships so it should be good enough for gliding). Every cadet would get gliding in proper gliders rather than vigilantes and it could remain local to the units.
I have a cadet about to time out who has never been able to go gliding as it hasn’t been available in our area… That’s nearly 6 years since they joined NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!
Can I enquiry, what have the VGS staff done since the pause?? In the time we had our gliding paused due to airfield issues I have seen the OC of the VGS once at a conference telling us there is a problem with the airfield, never been seen since the world wide pause and his staff have never been seen since…
It would of been good if they done a bit of touring talking to cadets about gliding and even principles of flight etc…
Same here, VGS staff working at sqns in my wing have been non-existant. Conversations with a couple of VGS staff - GCI’s and VRT - suggest that perhaps 50% of the staff might return when flying gets up and running, but that even that number might be optimistic when the reality of turning up every weekend month in, month out rears its ugly head…
I don’t think the ACO will ever recover in flying terms, it looks to me like gliding will be a niche activity like Germany camps used to be, or annual camps are now - something for individual cadets or small groups from sqns to do once a year once in their cadet careers.
And no, I won’t be giving up an entire weekend to take a handful of cadets gliding 3 hours away. I have my own children, who’d I’d quite like to see…
Depends on the VGS as to if they’ve been out and about I guess. You can search through them on on facebook and see those that have been putting in the time.
Good idea… Just checked and nothing has been posted other than Remembrance Sunday posters (we will remember kind of thing not them attending) or CAC/ ACO announcements
Here is a thought that just occurred…[quote=“angus, post:475, topic:1152”]
Conversations with a couple of VGS staff - GCI’s and VRT - suggest that perhaps 50% of the staff might return
[/quote]
Having been a SNCO and now commissioned each time like us all I had to apply and agree to do 12hrs a month, I would assume roughly the same for the VGS’s. how have they kept their hours up so to speak??
Don’t get me wrong they are out every weekend so at the beginning I would expect them to take some downtime with the family but as time has went on were they put in the N.E. pool or are they even still in the corps??
Obviously didn’t check them all though, some have staff are averaging around 50hrs a month on cadet activities.
Certainly that is what I am hearing. All the VGS staff have had free weekends for 18 months and a lot have found other outlets for their enthusiasm, some flying and some other activities. Some are now too old to return.
The real problem will be the staff cadets. Almost no cadet has been solo for over two years, so no-one is eligible to become a staff cadet (all the existing ones have moved on/got too old). The Staff cadets are where not only the enthusiasm comes from, but also the new instructors.
Bigspoon, I have no idea what drugs you are taking but they must be making your thinking a bit fuzzy. Your comments do not fit the reality we on squadrons have experienced wrt the indefinite suspension of gliding and for those of us unfortunate enough to be under the auspice of 5AEF powered flying for the last 9-10 months, since the CF of a move to Wittering from Wyton.
I don’t know where you work but where I work under performance is not tolerated and the whole of the ACMB and devolved commands therein have under performed with respect to flying of all types. Out here in the real world rather than getting what would be considered as eye-watering salaries for ordinary workers, let alone those who have retired, they would be down the job centre or living off pensions. They should regard themselves extremely privileged that they have been given the invitation to lead this organisation, we don’t ask for them or get a choice it’s pot luck who we get and unfortunately IMO we haven’t been getting the best. The act like politicians putting whatever they can in terms of spin on things to make things look good.
I had a visit from the parent of a cadet who joined in Sep 14 with the question ‘when will my daughter get to fly, because that’s why she left her scout group’, my answer of I have no idea, wasn’t met with accepting OK then, it was met with her uniform returned the following night. She’s not the only one that has drifted away or left in the last 12 months. I’ve got to look seriously at whether or not I bother putting any effort into recruiting cadets this coming year, as we aren’t offering anything unique, as any recruiting requires staff taking time off work and I’m not sure we want to go into a school and lie or talk in passive terms about flying.
Anyone who thinks that the other activities we offer are a substitute for the thrill of getting into a two seat aircraft and being able to assume control, is off their rocker.
IF glidng returns next year (2016), it will take 3-4 years to get back to anything like we had before and that’s a conservative estimate from someone in the gliding clique. Because their expectation is a massive attrition rate among instructors and then no staff cadets who effectively run the operation side of things and as said a percentage go on to become instructors.
The notion of less but larger VGS is a nonsense idea and just what I would expect from clueless individuals. Remember it’s not just cadets that stay overnight it’s staff as well and I bet we’d be expected to entertain them post gliding.
Lets hope most of the VGS’s are able to recover then, the ones I know are good to go but even when some sites receive a handful of aircraft you are still looking at the real back log of VGS staff skills and currencies, then hopefully we can see some cadets in the air.
Need aircraft first though, and remember safety first :).
Note still no moaning from me, doesn’t solve anything.
Indeed the AOC and CAS are paid lots of cash!
We need to stop moaning, stop looking back and look forward. It will be very different I am sure.
I can see how it must be very hard for the Sqn’s, hopefully the staff do not badmouth the gliding pause so as the cadets do not follow that example. I assume the VGS staff are also feeling sorry for the whole thing, my Sqn has had a CGI join supernumerary during the pause, be a shame when he goes back flying we share him 50/50 at the moment.
They must be experts at tea making by now,