Gliding "paused"

Everyone Flying
2033

Well that’s wasted effort then, no use to the bulk of the country. Those numbers look really impressive to idiots with no idea what should be happening. 184 wow, glad I was sitting down, how totally underwhelming, what did they do for the other 2¼ years. Why get so excited about PTT, sitting in a flight sim, that you could do at practically every squadron. Including the bloke from my squadron who went, others have said, you could do it at the squadron, but they supposed they need to give people a job.

If our one goes ahead as suggested, we go from a 1½ hours each way to 3½-4 hours each way (according to mapping tools), whichever way you look at it is a night out and for what? I doubt many staff would be keen but they’ll do it, and then parents may also be a bit iffy if a couple of spins in a glider and a go in a flight sim if their offspring have homework or exams. It’s bad enough at times when it’s just a day.
Then there is keeping cadets entertained before and after their flights and then feeding everyone. Will these places have fully equipped kitchens and people to clean them? Btw not us.

This idea has more flaws (sic) than the Burj Khalifa.

1 Like
2034

Is a very fine building like Burj al Arab, closer to home maybe not so much.

2035

Feel free not to go, I’m sure the volunteers at the gliding squadrons would be unable to cope with such with such rays of positivity

2036

And what, pray, do you think the future will hold for your free gliding club when it becomes apparent that your customer base doesn’t want to avail itself of your services?

I’m not doing a 6 hour round trip - or worse, an overnighter - to take two cadets to a large shed for the day so they can have a single 6 minute flight and play on an Xbox.

If their parents want to take them, and the VGS is happy to supervise them the whole time then fine, but I’m not doing it.

8 Likes
2037

I think to engage parents to take them is the way to go.

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2038

“Free gliding club” ah that old classic, if only.

On present form it would seem the Squadron future is very busy.

2039

Again not a single VGS in Wales or NI and only one in Scotland.

Doesn’t matter how many cadets they’re flying if they’re all from the same small geographic area.

As far as I’m aware my ENTIRE wing has had a total of two gliding places in the last few years. It’s a joke.

Fortunately our AEF is great so at least our cadets are flying in some way.

1 Like
2040

Now that’s rather odd, our squadron has had 5 slots between February and the Vigilant being retired at 645.

2041

I don’t know what to say but I’m fairly certain that’s the case. Certainly my squadron hasn’t seen any gliding for years.

2042

Wow, that’s a real shame. Have you looked into a civvie club just to get them off the ground at least?

2043

We’re getting tutor slots fairly regularly just no gliding, which is a shame as when there was a VGS 40 minutes down the road we used to get a fair bit.

2044

You can’t. Only 6 BGA clubs across the country are “approved” providers.

2045

Bloody typical.

2046

Is that approved for Air Cadets? If so it’s quite straightforward to do the others, apart from urinating 2 FTS’s fire and removing several officer’s from the payroll I cannot see the where the problem is. The RAF is overrun with senior officers.

1 Like
2047

In reality gliding under the aegis of the BGA would be organised directly with clubs - they own the gliders etc. And many clubs do quite a bit of AirEx flying. Vouchers are popular presents, my club (for example) sells several hundred each year though a great many never get flown.

When the ‘pause’ started we had a visit from OC of our local squadron. This foundered on two rocks:

  1. we told him (correctly) that he needed to talk to our CFI in the next winter when the CFI was arranging the summer flying program
  2. all of a sudden ATC cadets could only be flown by Full Cat instructors, when the reality at BGA clubs is that most AirEx flying is done by Basic Instructors - those on the first rung of the Instructor’s ladder.

Of course there is nothing militarist about a BGA club, and the reason the availability of our gliders is so high is that each club has a team of volunteers, lead by BGA Inspectors, doing the work (labour free) to keep the gliders airworthy, and there is an awareness throughout all members about the importance of the need to do an effective DI, and to consult an Inspector if there are any doubts, any sign of possible damage not signed off in the DI book, or (and it happens) in the event of an accident.

If we had to rely on sending them away each time there was a query, or need for an annual, availability would take a big dive.

Engines wrote on Pprune: “What happened with the ATC fleet was not paperwork ‘nonsense’ keeping serviceable aircraft grounded. At the risk of repetition, if the paperwork is not right, an aircraft is non-airworthy. It is unserviceable. You don’t know what its material state is.”

(post Air Cadets grounded? - Page 232 - PPRuNe Forums)

And I have seen plenty of replies in the very long (over 6,400 posts) there that suggest there are a scary number of people out there who don’t understand that, or don’t agree with it. Some of them were clearly from the ATC. :frowning:

Moving the gliders to the G-register under the BGA wouldn’t help the situation unless at the same time there were sufficient volunteers in each squadron to become inspectors etc., but for most people that takes time to build up the necessary qualifications.

My advice to any cadet who wants to experience flying in a glider - book yourself an AirEx at your nearest BGA club. If you really enjoy it and want to continue, join. Most clubs give their Cadet members (I mean under 21 or whatever their rule is) very generous terms, for example at my club a winch launch plus up to 30 minutes for the same price as an adult would pay just for the launch…

There will be no square bashing, the club will provide no other activities (shooting, canoeing, whatever), no worry about what to wear and how to be turned out, or if your shirt is ironed or not. The big concern at civilian clubs is if you are suitably attired for the current weather, not if you are dressed up fit to salute an HRH. Far too many youngsters on their first day out at the launch caravan get awful cold, airfields are windy parky places.

3 Likes
2048

That’s been my advice too since OC2FTS put the kybosh on us organising it through our BGA club as the ATC.

Shame, as during the pause we’d come to an agreement with our local BGA club that saw our CivCom footing part of the bill to ensure not only rich cadets could fly. Skipping the Sqn out of the loop and going direct to the club means it’s very much those who can afford it get to go.

Social immobility in action. Thanks 2FTS.

3 Likes
2049

There are a lot of bursaries for young pilots, but getting to a club can be a issue as a great many are not realistic by public transport - they need a parent able & willing to take them, or their squadron needs to be organising it.

2050

I haven’t got enough time in my life to trawl back through all my previous (numerous) posts on here in order to further castigate / lambast the system.

It has been a farce right from the beginning. The failure to directly (& positively) involve the BGA from the outset (protectionism?) has pushed ACO gliding to the current near-demise; cadets could have continued to glide & VGS instructors could have retained currency (with of course valuable exchange of skills / experience between BGA / VGS staff). I refuse to include what in effective terms is a smattering of gliding flights in isolated locations as any substantial solution.

The “super VGS” option is also a potential nail in the coffin, for all the reasons outlined previously - distance / time to travel, credibility for investing a huge amount of resources for a weekend visit to a PTT with perhaps the option for one gliding flight, loss of weekend time for cadet Saturday job / school coursework, etc.

When introducing ACTO35, it seemed that 2FTS had very little understanding of the commercial aspects (CAA over-sight, etc, for a CAA-approved flying club, need to “block” list rather than link Cadet A to aircraft A & Instructor A) & had to be pushed to include gliding as part of the ACTO - & we all now how things are at the moment.

It is a shameful situation - yet the ACO still advertises gliding as part of the “expected” activities. I started in the ACO, & was lucky enough to get a gliding scholarship & subsequently, a flying scholarship; it undoubtedly helped me get into the RAF, which certainly helped me get into commercial aviation. Trying to get gliding through the ACO (directly or via approved BGA) is like trying to push sh*t up Mount Everest with a teaspoon. I want cadets to have the same opportunities that helped me; currently, it is impossible.

4 Likes
2051

And as I said in earlier post, if this was a company and advertised like that, the ASA would have investigated HQAC and they’d would have been sanctioned.

2052

I remember back in the day i would go gliding ay least twice a year…