Corps - Multi Activity Camps

[steve679]

@SeaHarrier

Announcing them in June…only give staff 2 months notice to attend

is a worry imo. We are all familiar with the 7Ps

RIAT, while easily predictable (indeed the 2027 dates are out and have been known for a while), releases its details latest January that year (often just before Christmas) with its Calling notice, and sets out a timetable of deadlines.

While I appreciate on a different scale, with two months to go to RIAT, the only element left in the deadline schedule is paying for the camp.
the Calling notice had been released, Directing Staff selected (Specialist Roles), Wing Deadlines for bidding, then Wing Selection completed, and TG forms collected by early May

all of this is still relevant for these MACs, if on a slightly smaller scale but without any of the infrastructure behind it (RIAT has an “admin team” supported by Region and Wing POCs) it makes an already hard task harder to get all of that done in no time available

Our Wing will often have released Summer Camp allocations by Easter (if not prior as a "this is the years annual camp allocation, which includes Easter) offering 4-5 months prior notice.

i am lost how they thought they’d get this off the ground - it isn’t as if HQAC have no prior experience of running large camps, see RIAT, D&L, NASC to name a few.

@Squadgy

HQ can’t introduce a new ruleset and then expect people to jump to cater be surprised when they cannot fill their own requirement

fixed that for you

@themajor

I am glad that HQ are seeing these staffing challenges which previously have been locally managed

Seconded.
while i can see their enthusiasm and excitement in what they think is a great opportunity, the CFAVs only see the panic emails requesting commitment which, in my mind at least, breads a feeling of disorganisation, last minute planning, and the event looking like a disaster before anyone has stepped on a coach

#shotthemselvesinthefoot

@Biggles_Lovechild

Maybe they need to understand the problem

I would suggest part of it is, there is no precedence set - the first year such a scheme has been put together and no one knows anything - the call for Staff so late shows it is an idea first, infrastructure second.
much like the “i’m sorry i haven’t a clue” round, with the TV programme title came first, then the programme content is created to suit it.

RIAT started as a B&G Wing event, and built up year by year, introducing neighbouring Wings, then Regions, and then became a national camp.

Wing Teams can operate in much the same way, 2-3 keen Staff putting on a multi-Squadron event (First aid, Radio, Shooting, AT - whatever it might be) , which then gains traction and then it is a Sector event, then multi-Sector and then a whole Wing event.

these have come out of the blue as “big ticket” items yet with no build up, or stable infrastructure in place.

@JoeBloggs

there were often more wanting to go than were needed. It’s now the complete opposite.

I cannot remember a year when there hasn’t been a call in our Wing for CFAVs to consider supporting an Annual/Summer Camp as it is at risk of being cancelled due to too few CFAVs being available to make it happen

Even RIAT doesn’t see much take up nowadays, certainly in our Wing and often struggling to fill our allocation.

[themajor]

@ash

While I completely agree, my understanding was that these were acting as emergency stand ins after the RIAT cancellation?

Not so, in addition to these August Camps there is also a “replacement” RIAT happening.

As I said we had our allocation of staff & cadet places in early March - I think the expectation was that Wings would staff their own allocations

[daws1159]

@themajor

As I said we had our allocation of staff & cadet places in early March - I think the expectation was that Wings would staff their own allocations

Which is still far too late, I started booking my annual leave for 2026 in October 2025, no point telling me about something in March.

Besides if Wings aren’t able/willing to staff their allocations it probably shows a lack of engagement when the Camps were set up, maybe they should’ve checked staff interest before deciding this is something they wanted to do.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, maybe they should’ve thought about staff engagement and morale when they decided to cut V&A and that staff should be treated like children who couldn’t be trusted to have a beer after work.

[WestlandScout]

I’m often committed to work events several months out, sometimes longer. These are not things I can pull out of.

It’s the same other Squadron staff, who book annual or volunteer leave for activities that are then cancelled. They usually have to take the leave anyway. Flying is the biggest culprit here.

[steve679]

@daws1159

maybe they should’ve checked staff interest before deciding this is something they wanted to do

precisely

Whenever setting up a training weekend, or even considering a AEF allocation, i confirm i have the Staff team in place first, before considering even advertising to the Cadets…

[Biggles_Lovechild]

Ah but ‘No fail’ is a recognised force multiplier

[WestlandScout]

Being devil’s advocate here but is a ‘replacement for RIAT’ needed? It’s a shame it can’t go ahead but it’s out of our control.

[SeaHarrier]

These existed before RIAT was cancelled and are sperate to the “RIAT Replacement” camp.

[daws1159]

Indeed, but surely with these national camps not resourced and RIAT cancelled they should’ve looked at staffing these befkre setting up even more?

[Eeh_Bah_Gum]

And what’s going to happen if RIAT replacement is cancelled due to heat; will it

[WestlandScout]

Ah ok

Checking my emails we had request for staff (but no cadet places) for one lot and cadet places but no staff calling notice for the RIAT replacement. Which is only open to those with a RIAT place I think.

[steve679]

@daws1159

they should’ve looked at staffing these befkre setting up even more?

The expectation was thise committed to RIAT would alao support the replacement camps…

[angus]

That seems a courageous assumption…

[daws1159]

@steve679

The expectation was thise committed to RIAT would alao support the replacement camps…

Which they may well be doing, but since these camps already existed and weren’t staffed surely they should’ve used the RIAT staff for these first and then setup extra camps with what was left over?

[themajor]

@daws1159

used the RIAT staff for these first

That works perfectly if the RIAT staff were RAFAC employees and not volunteers.

Ability to cancel July leave and replace with August leave at short notice who knows if that’s possible

[ThatDrummerBoy]

And also, interest in attending/running yet another MAC, in lieu of RIAT camp…

[Joe1]

That happened too me when they moved the events around because of RIAT being cancelled.
My work are quite nice and let me move it but its just not the same for everybody else.

[angus]

Is there any chance these characters could just do their actual jobs of getting us money and stuff, and then staying the out of the way?

[karlmack]

I think the issue sits more in the fact that with this no fail event, HQAC didn’t drop this early enough to avoid other events being created.

Four weeks of camps that sit near RIAT and over NASC, Camp Viking, Wing Camps was never going to happen easily.
To the point that ACLO Teams if their service instructors are being asked to support if possible on the station if they are hosting.

[angus]

3 different, but tied together, drivers caused this problem:

1. RIAT being so determined to put on this year’s show that they waited till long after it was obvious to all that it couldn’t happen at Fairford to pull the plug.
2. HQAC (22Gp?) being so wedded to RIAT as an organisation that it just couldn’t/wouldn’t say ‘sorry, you’ve got your head in the sand - we’re out’ in order to have time to come up with other things.
3. An emotional/psychological thing in HQAC/RAF where they just don’t really get that we’re not people who can just be moved about to cater for their last minute changes of plan.

Now, I know that there’s an issue with 2 - once you leave a sponsor/partner/customer in the lurch you rarely get asked back. We all know that, as do our treasurers, from the car parking debacle. But there comes a point..