Civilian post nominals (plus JSP101 and email etiquette)

Debretts says that you can, or at least describes how you can.

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I love that the apology letter written in JSP 101 is signed off as

I N Dung
Squadron Leader

May start using that when I’m in poo! Even the JSP writers have a laugh once in a while

Ah I remeber the days when Defence Writing was called ISS and it was an 18 month correspondence course and exam you had to pass to be eligible for promotion

All done with pen, ink, pencil and ruler - as much a geometry exercise to get all the margins and spacings right before you even thought about content…

…and post noms only ever on letter heads and formal letters

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Precisely so!

A simple way of answering / contextualising the OP’s question via this analogy:

Q = “would you normally expect to, or ever really consider, wearing your medals on No.2 blues or No.3 greens?”

A = “No you would not”

And that’s it: case closed!

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But is an email not just a modern day letter and therefore formal?

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What a blatant waste of time and effort!

Almost as bad as someone using your current RAFAC rank, followed by RAF tank Ret’d :man_facepalming:t2:

Was that for Regular/Reserve service or as cadet staff?
Either way, that doesn’t sound fun but I do remember someone telling me to cross things out in a sort of Z shape and I weren’t sure if they were having me on as it seemed a bit odd but I was embarrassed that I didn’t know if this is correct or not so it would be painful to learn but I can understand it could be useful to be standardised etc.

I find another users point that emails have replaced letters interesting. I would agree they are more common but there is still a place for letters. Although certainly I’d love to send accounts an email with my VA forms rather than a printed form and cover letter although that is down to a. Not having a working printer, b. cost of stamps c. time. d. The ability for paperwork to magically get lost!

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The one that winds me up is people whose Twitter name is ‘Joe Bloggs MBE’…

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Oh yeah baby!! I’m ISS & scars - typed mine though = margins always good. :grin: Even taught in the DIOT Office Simulator at Cranditz! As rewritten by yours truly, an American exchange officer, & a nav who was retreading as a padre! Great fun, loads of stories.

A frightening few seconds whilst turning finals on a 500 ft low level circuit in a Vulcan. The other pilot exclaimed, very loudly on the intercom - “Oh" Frantic checking of engine instruments by me, can’t see anything wrong.

Cue nav radar swivelling his seat in a nano-second - in preparation for immediate aircraft abandonment (not good with the gear down - nose wheel right behind crew escape door!) - ”What’s the problem??!!”

The reason - “I forgot to send off my ISS yesterday, I’m a week late already…”.

That cost him several beers!! :laughing:

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Please, I beg you, stay on topic.

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No. An email is a modern day Loose Minute and therefore informal.
A Letter is a modern day letter :wink:

I would suggest that an email is more than a “loose minute” - especially if based on rank differential / topic. A loose minute, or similar file note would be pretty neutral in that respect.

Of course, latest version of “Defence Writing” might give more formal guidance.

Indeed it does…

Email messages are an easy and quick way of corresponding, that tend to have an informal style. All this brings many benefits but also presents problems. Email can easily be forwarded, which quickly allows gossip or sensitive information to become public knowledge.

Despite its informality, email messages serve the same purpose and have the same status as any other type of official document…

Loose minutes. Loose minutes act as a substitute for email when network facilities are not available or when email is not appropriate. Loose minutes can be used within or between MOD Head Office, HQs, MOD agencies and units…

Letters. Letters are used for official business with members of the public, external organizations and between some MOD establishments. You should write letters on headed paper…

Of course now, under version 4, we don’t have loose minutes at all.

That’s the version I don’t have.

That is the problem. I see some RAFAC emails & cringe - the sender has clearly not thought of the other Defence writing guidance (that should be common sense) concerning structure, etc. More importantly, they also haven’t considered the level / rank of the recipient(s). The “old” types of Service correspondence more or less pointed you at the right type of communication which bound you to the right type of formality (or informality).

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I see it go both ways too…
We had issues in the past in the Wing with people being too informal in emails to senior officers. Now it’s gone the other way and people are being ultra formal with colleagues when it would be perfectly acceptable to call them by first name.

Can someone please help me understand what ‘loose minutes’ are as before reading JSP101, I was not aware of the term and I’m still confused about what they are and when one would use them? An example would be nice.

I do understand the latest version of JSP101 is much condensed and does not include them but I’m curious.

It was basically just a form of communication which was informal.

Formal (and going back some “Demi-Formal”) letters were intended for correspondence between Services, or between the Service and the public.

Briefs, point briefs, and submissions (used to suggest a plan of action for consideration by a senior) had their own formats too, and any other routine communication was done as a “loose minute”.
That would be internal comms regarding everything from “Here’s the planned schedule for future meetings of the new Tea Bar Committee, can you all check your calendars and let me know if you foresee any problems” to the SWOs orders for preparation for a formal inspection.

The standard DW conventions applied to all but a loose minute would not feature the formal letterhead and recipient address found in a latter. Nor would it contain the formal valediction (now referred to as an ‘Ending’ in later editions of JSP 101).

The previous version of JSP 101 - v3.1 still included loose minutes and the format would be followed for almost everything written for an internal audience.

Now in v4.0 they no longer exist, having been replaced almost entirely by email. Indeed, one of the key points in the previous release (which was still often missed by people) was that an email could replace a loose minute. Lots of people still had a bad habit of writing something in word in loose minute format and then attaching that document to an email - instead of just writing the content as an email in the first place.

In English it was a Memo :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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Except that a memo could be written as a loose minute, but not every loose minute was a memo.

A true, simple ‘memo’ would have been scribbled on a MOD Form 4A.

I knew I still had a pad somewhere…

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