When I was a cadet we had an adj who brought his girlfriend along. She eventually became a CI, but I don’t recall her ever instructing much. But she also brought her 8 year old son who was, I think the inspiration for the Viz character Spoilt Bastrad
Disruptive, occasionally violent and always irritating he drove other cadets and staff to distraction. Whenever he was told to behave, adjs gf would tell us off, and could see no fault in her little ray of sunshine. Eventually the CO told her to leave him at home and that he should not and henceforth will no more be allowed on the Squadron. She quit the ATC. But the adj went with her, under pressure from her no doubt. Which was a shame because we lost a good officer there.
Moving this topic on, what are the ATC like on children of staff serving in the same sqns?
The ACF has a clear policy. No. It’s not allowed. Parent and child cannot be part of the same Detachment. The problem is it is universally ignored!
Parents will cite many valid reasons, transport issues being the main one, but to enforce would be discriminatory. We don’t like it because of the accusations of nepotism (justified and unjustified) that will inevitably come from it, but there is rarely anything we can do about it.
I was in a det as an instructor years ago and the DC was a slag and her daughter a foul mouthed bully, and not unsurprisingly senior cadet. I hated that unit, and asked for a transfer stating ‘transport difficulties’ but the difficulty was I didn’t want to transport myself two nights a week to be in the vicinity of 2 people who made my flesh creep.
Sorry to contradict you, old chap, but the ACF does not have that policy. I did just double check ACF Regulations, so if it was a policy I would have to challenge your statement that it was a “clear” one! :). To be honest, I have found that most instructors who have their child as a cadet at their detachment are usually tougher on them than other cadets so has to avoid giving the impression that they are giving them special treatment.
In all my years I for one quite like the idea of staff having children on the sqn as cadets as you tend to find, be it parental pressure or an instilling a mindset of committing to something. It can be awkward at times as you may see them socially at times and get to know them better than the others.
This will invariably drag their mates along to things.
The problem wrt nepotism comes with sqn awards, when the children of staff get them … essentially because they get involved and do things. But I see nothing wrong with this.
Our kids didn’t join the Corps (it was enough to have dad at home) but a few of their mates did, which was an interesting thing when they came round the house. It was interesting when the kids had bf/gf who were cadets … especially when it broke up.
There were a few times I took our kids to the sqn, but they were quite happy doing their thing.
It should be a policy that things like promotions and awards cannot be given by the parent to their child. I have a member of staff at my unit whose daughter is a cadet. He doesn’t get involved in her promotions or awards, or even assess her in any subject. It works quite well.
That’s pretty standard unwritten policy. Even as an OC you can take a slight back seat on promotions if it’s your child.
Most awards such as collecting etc are automatic, as are if you have someone who is a good at sports/shooting etc.
If the cadet puts themselves out there, does the things and is a good example, then IMO they are the best cadet, not necessarily the one with the most badges/medals etc.
I suppose I was fortunate in this respect as I had already been appointed as the Wing Training Officer before both my lads were old enough to join the ATC; and hence had no involvement or input into their cadet careers on a Sqn.
My eldest ended up as a Cdt FS and the youngest didn’t achieve any promotion at all. However, me being on Wg didn’t stop one CWO from suggesting to my eldest that he had been promoted ‘just because of who your father is’.
You aren’t contradicting me. It certainly was Policy in 2 counties I have served in and I’m sure it was in an edition of the ACF Regs. But like I said: Universally ignored because it was impractical and discriminatory.
In the noughties I was a CI in Sussex Wing. One of the other CIs had his daughter on the Squadron, SNCO, but a quite mediocre cadet. Several of her peers were more deserving than her IMO. We had a staff meeting and promotions came up. This CI agreed to step out and not join in the discussion when his daughter was the subject of discussion. So we discussed all the other candidates first. He absolutely slagged them off and made shocking allegations about their ability, conduct and morals even! It was clearly his clumsy attempt to rubbish the competition and pave a way for his daughter to triumph. I pointe!d this out to the meeting, much to his annoyance. He hated me after that, but meh? He left the ACO a few years later after an unsuccessful period as Sgt ATC. Unsuccessful I believe, because of his policy of stabbing people in the back. (I know it’s sport in the cadet world, but you have to make some allies before you make enemies. He didn’t by all accounts)
It gets my goat when other instructors suggest that a cadet only got promoted because their parent is an instructor. One of my staff has their daughter at our unit and she is the cadet RSM. Some people have suggested that it because her father is an instructor when in reality he had no involvement in the process and for most of the promotions did not even know about it until it had happened. Quite frankly it is insulting to the cadet as it questions their ability and it is insulting to me as in questions my integrity as a detachment OC.
I believe that family should not be on the same squadron because even if correct procedures are followed, cadets and staff will still think there is favouritism when in reality there probably isn’t. It’s just a matter of judgement because that what people first do is judge.
It’s like most other problems in the corps and it’s down to the fact that there is probably only a minor few staff that treat their children favourably
A big chunk of the staff in the cadet forces in general are parents of cadets. Little Johnny goes to cadets and mum or dad get roped in, are we going to turn to these potential staff and say “sorry you can’t volunteer your time here”
i think that the most corrosive and poisonous to the ACO/Sqn relationships are not staff and their cadet children, its staff who are married to, or in a long term relationship with, other staff.
in the vast, overwhelming majority of instances in my experience where a member of staffs kids are also cadets its been handled well by all parties, and even if it isn’t its a problem that goes away in a few years when the cadet times out or just leaves of their own accord.
where you have staff in a relationship however, its not something that goes away, and its not something that is going to involve a stiff bollocking and restitution of good order - its an instant clique, an unbreakable clique that suffers no criticism.
i’ve seen it twice - husband and wife OC/Adj team with no other officers on the Sqn, Adj was a waste of skin but the other staff, uniformed or not, got the blame from the OC and the Adj just sat there smuggly knowing that no one was going to stick the blame on her. pretty much every member of staff left or transfered, the Sqn went into freefall and eventually went DF and stayed there until they left the ACO in a flounce. second was OC/SNCO - both were very good, dedicated, talented people, but if you got on the wrong side of one you were on the wrong side of both. i wasn’t, i was a close friend of both, but others weren’t so fortunate and freezing out process was pretty complete. good people left or transfered, and to a certain degree the remaining staff had to deal with the pair of them as a power bloc rather than just as individuals with a CoC.
Round our way 5 miles is a 30 a minute drive, when you consider it’s still in a commuting time slot and mostly ‘town roads’ added to the rest of the nonsense on the roads such as traffic lights. Even on a Sunday morning it’s 20 as the traffic lights etc aren’t removed. I could imagine a 5 mile journey in large towns/cities to be even more fun.
For what is suggested it would require both parents having cars and no other children. At the outside you could have someone else from the other squadron living nearby who didn’t mind being the permanent cadet taxi for someone else’s child.
Whether they are children of staff or members of the committee or just parents that help out from time to time, they will invariably tick the boxes for promotion etc, as they invariably turn up and set the right example to the other cadets.
I thought this was about children of staff who are cadets. not generally children of staff.
Would the latter not be regarded as a member of the public visiting? In which case the general insurance / indemnity should cover them in the case of an accident if we were found to be at fault, like we would be expect to be covered if we visited somewhere. When we have intakes, end of evenings if the parents come in to pick their kids up or open events people bring their children of all ages, would you put a ban on these, bearing in mind how we are perceived by parents goes a long, long way to determining whether they allow their children to join. We can’t all be blessed with having someone at home or close by to look after children at the drop of a hat. My wife stopped working when we had our first and so ‘childcare’ has never been a problem, I feel sorry for those who are trying to conduct a normal life and don’t have a ‘free’ option when it comes to looking after children.
