One thing that has not been discussed on this issue is demographic. The majority of the RAF is under 30 and nobody over 55. The demographic of the ATC is very different, the majority of officers are over 35 with many over 50 and some who are over 60.
On the whole young people are shinny and older people are fatter. It’s not called middle aged spread for nothing.
This topic is really all about the RAF who are young trying to make the older ATC look like them.
What are the fitness targets for a 60 year old?
The reason why in my wing there are 2 WSO over 60 is that there are no officers to replace them (There were 4 60plus WSO last December). A WSO said to me that there will be 6 units in the wing run by NCOs by the summer. My wing and the ATC in general is very short of good officers. The ATF are cancelling OIC courses because there are so few baby Plt Offs. A CI went to OASC failed the selection and is now a Sgt (ATC). He will be taking over a sqn because there is nobody else to take over the unit. Not good enough to be an officer according to OASC but still given a sqn by the wing. ???
I am over 18 stone, BMI of over 30. Do need to join the gym, dye my hair blond and get blue contact lenses to babysit other people children. At 24 I had a waist line of 32” but that was 20 years ago. Now middle aged 40” waist, still wear uniform off the peg and getting around Nijmegen, run around the hills but I am too heavy for flying.
If I had joined the RAF for 22 years at leaving school I would have been out for 4 years by now. This is the issue. That poor sod in Lincoln was not a 22 year old but a middle aged guy who is doing his best for his sqn. Perhaps we should blame HQAC who expect one set of No1s to last our whole officer career. This could be 40 years.
Apologies, but I’ve been reading this thread with growing contempt for people’s attitudes towards health. Age and time available are not an excuse for basic self discipline to keep yourself healthy. I know one particular example, my father a 58 year old with family, a full-time job as an airline pilot, and a part-time job as a flying instructor, yet still finds time to spend with family and keeping healthy. Appreciate that a pilot isn’t a typical 9-5 job, but when you consider he mostly flies nights, so a lot of any days off he has are taken up by trying to recover an acceptable sleep pattern and once thats achieved he spend most days at the flying club instructing, you can see the hours free quickly diminishing. Its perfectly possible to juggle a family life, professional life and your hobbies with keeping healthy.
I don’t think for a second asking someone to respect themselves and keep themselves HEALTHY (not necessarily fit) is too much to ask at all. It doesn’t take much to put on some trainers and go for a trot for 30 mins, or get on your bike and cycle to/from work. Maybe a fitness test to the same levels as regular/reserve forces isn’t the answer, but maybe a test to prove you can tie your own shoe laces without having to have a considerable recovery period afterwards woudn’t go amiss.
The state of some people I’ve seen wearing the uniform is disgraceful, one particular example springs to mind (I won’t post the picture, thats a little too personal) from a remembrance parade, the fella was so large he couldn’t keep his shirt tucked in under his 1’s and the shirt tails were hanging out beneath his jacket (which barely covered below his belly button). Is this acceptable in public? Who by the way don’t really know the difference between yourselves and regular forces, so in reality you are representing the RAF as well as the ACO. Sure carrying a bit of weight isn’t a problem, but when it looks like someone’s sewn you into some blue skin tight lycra, then I think its a bit much.
Rant over… and kevlars donned for the backlash
Edit: for the record, IMHO i don’t think this applies purely to the ACO, but in general in any walk of life. Maybe 2 hours off work a week to go phys should be compulsory (of course with some sort of record to prove you haven’t just used it to fit an extra 4/5 (or more) pints into the day).
I have to say, from when i started this topic, I was more towards the side that there should be a fitness test.
I can now say I now think the opposite. Initially my main interests was not in having people looking good in uniform (although an element) but being able to partake in all activities and set a good example to cadets. This has simple been laid to bed with the points about teachers and also the reality of who does what in the ACO.
I would say there are many capable overweight people in the ACO as well as many capable obese people in the ACO. Does it detract from their effectiveness, not really. Are there overweight people in the Forces, yes. Does it detract from their effectiveness, yes. Whole different situation. Each has their own bad examples but it is not representative of the whole organisation.
As for one set of 1s… join the club. Thats not just the ACO, the RN are also the same. I get my first issue and that is it. If I get to the dizzy heights where my uniform changes, I pay for it, be it the Hat, Trousers, Jackets etc.
Ok, i’ll take the hit. Someone else can decide on this.
In my defence, the post i snipped of Leeroys had a lack of clarification if it was tongue in cheek. It seemed to be more personal regarding someone who had served in the Reg and their mentality. Mine did (see the two smilies at the bottom under the picture, if you made it past the pie that is). That and it wasn’t personal because, clearly, Rockape3 doesn’t partake in fatty food and he said himself that he was ranting…
Far from it, theres nothing wrong with it in moderation, who doesn’t like a good steak night or chinese takeaway? Just saying that some people seem to just kiss off their health because they ‘don’t have time’ its not a big undertaking to maintain your health. I’m not talking about running marathons, simply not collapsing in a sweaty mess because you’ve walked 5 metres (this isn’t directed at anyone by the way, just in general).
Hang on - why the censorship? Both Leeroy and myself made posts relevant to Op Nimrod’s inflammatory remarks and by removing them, it appears to me, that Nimrod’s behaviour is being covered up.
When I use certain words in my posts, they are snipped or changed by the mod team and left for all to view my shortcomings in my use of language or context. When a mod makes inflammatory statements (which begets the question - is he still a mod and if so, why?), it’s chopped completely.
Not very fair OR transparent, is it?
[Edited to add]: AND I’ve just noticed that he’s thanked you for doing so!
Every check up, blood test, heart/lung tests, x-rays and other function tests I’ve had at work and with my own quack in the last 5 years, have come back clear. People who weigh less than I do haven’t. In 28 years employment I’ve had 8 days sick - 5 days D&V and 3 after I cut my scalp playing rugby and the hospital said not to go to work. I work with others who have several days sick each year. So define healthy.
I know loads of smokers who look healthy who can’t pass medicals but I don’t see them being targeted, because aesthetically they look OK, but healthy, not really.
The letter from the CAC is all about aesthetics and absolutely nothing to do with a perception of healthy. Also this comes straight out of the low/no cost deflecting tactics administrators use, when trying to avoid the real problem(s) that require them to do some work and not pass the buck. Personnel depts do this all the time.
As in one of the earlier posts, if HQAC / RAF want to make something of it, ensure their own house is in order among the regulars before going after easy targets like uniformed CFAV.
Hang on - why the censorship? Both Leeroy and myself made posts relevant to Op Nimrod’s inflammatory remarks and by removing them, it appears to me, that Nimrod’s behaviour is being covered up.
When I use certain words in my posts, they are snipped or changed by the mod team and left for all to view my shortcomings in my use of language or context. When a mod makes inflammatory statements (which begets the question - is he still a mod and if so, why?), it’s chopped completely.
Not very fair OR transparent, is it?
[Edited to add]: AND I’ve just noticed that he’s thanked you for doing so![/quote]
[quote=“I”]There is no censorship. I removed replies that were off topic. We are discussing this behind the scenes. Leaving the comments there serves no purpose other than for you to gloat! You made remarks and then both reported the comment, which we are dealing with. That’s what the “report” button is for, there is no need to have the comments there too. We are not covering anything up, why the conspiracy theories?!
When we edit for tone or swearing, generally the post remains (unless it’s unsalvageable). In some case we do take the whole post away, as you well know. There is no difference here - leaving the comments would derail the thread, and we’re already working on it behind the scenes! It is not for me to question who should be a moderator or not, that is for an admin. However, given that Operation Nimrod is new to moderating I think they should be cut a little slack!
And him thanking me for doing something is nothing more than acknowledging that I have taken action on the abuse reports we received when you sent them!
I’m going to take your post out of the thread and leave it to PM, for the same reasons above.[/quote]
It’s worth remembering that when using our anonymous mod accounts we need to be beyond reproach - I don’t doubt Op Nimrod’s comments above were made in jest but that’s not how they were taken. It’s an easy mistake to make (and one I’ve no doubt made many times), but trying to remain impartial and not getting directly involved is a must I think.
That said, be contentious from normal accounts all we like I think!
