CCF Officer-Saluting Courtesy

But they are still officially allowed to apply. Last year’s John Thomson Sword winner had done QAIC.

Yes, I wasn’t saying it wasn’t possible but if something couldn’t be done for a good reason due to school limitations I would understand if there was a difference. At risk of deviating from the thread, master cadet upset me as you could do all 10 senior exams and have a lower classification badge than someone in the atc who has done 6.

That’s why I give mine the badge anyway #rulesaremadetobebroken

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In fairness, although not completely official if you truly want the master cadet badge and were in the CCF i am fairly certain you could be granted permission to wear one if you spoke to your OC who would mostly likely let you wear it and if they were not sure seek approval from the Wing OC or WExO for you to wear one (if it even came to that). This is assuming you meet all the requirements for Master cadet barring being in the ATC

Fixed that for you!

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No direct equivalent to Wing OC or WExO but agreed, you’d need to ask the TEST officer.

Slight devation fromt the topic but who would salute who in this scenario between

Sqn ldr Cambridge (HRH Duke of Cambridge) and Air Cmdre McCafferty.

Obviously normally, the Sqn ldr would salute the Air Cmdre who would return the salute. However, because in this instance the Sqn ldr is royalty would the Air Cmdre salute the Sqn ldr?

Isn’t it the Queen who grants commissions, not her grandson? Therefore the sovereign or those she grants her commission to, is saluted. So although royalty, Wills should in theory be outranked by the Air Commodore and compliments should be paid to her.

Then again, I’d salute Auntie Dawn and as she’s mates with Wills and Kate, she can sort it all out if I’m wrong. I’d just go and get a beer and carry out ‘social distancing’ whilst the pair of them argue it out.

Intriguing military protocol quandry: but…

I would say that this is true, but with some practical caveats: Sqn Ldr William Windsor KG KT ADC RAF Rtd, in uniform would’ve undoubtedly-saluted Air Cdre Dawn McCafferty CBE RAFR…(bearing in mind he is now in effect on the RAF Retired List but so saying- read on*)

He will have originally been Gazetted as an RAF officer, and entered onto the Air Force List; also (as is standard for royalty holding real non-honorary commissions) he will in the future presumably be receiving age-related promotions from the Sovereign on the appropriate anniversaries of the date of his initial appointment to a commission in each of the three services (noting that for the the RAF100 flypast, he wore the rank of Sqn Ldr).

The point I make is that in time he will eventually, even on the Retired List, be promoted via Sovereign’s Benefact through the commissioned ranks to a point where he equals or outranks the One Star Air-Ranked Air Force officer holding the post of Commandant RAF Air Cadets. It might be reasonable to presume that he is by now (or shortly attaining) Wg Cdr ADC RAF Rtd.

So: ultimately, even in a uniform-to-uniform encounter, CAC would be saluting Air Cdre / AVM Cambridge KG KT ADC RAF Rtd

*BUT if the Duke of Cambridge KG KT was to formally (or informally) encounter Air Cdr McCafferty CBE RAFR and he was not wearing the uniform & rank he is entitled to based upon his status upon the Retired List (ie he was in civilian clothes, and therefore accorded the fundamental style & privilege of a Royal Prince, and irrespective of whether he was formally-representing HM The Queen) then She (ie CAC/CRAFAC) would salute him.

(And…it’d be a bit remiss of us not to acknowledge that the Duchess of Cambridge (aka Countess of Strathearn) must be said to outrank her husband, and at least equal any future Commandant RAF Air Cadets, by dint of being Honorary Air Commandant RAFAC…

I believe that appointment will have been accorded One Star privilege (this I think would be the case, since the appointment of full Air Commodore-In-Chief is normally made at MRAF level).

I understood that when the Duchess took over from the Duke Of Edinburgh in that role for us, she was not at that point formally-gazetted: happy to be wrong on that point, though, since the whole situation with Honorary Air Commodores / Honorary Air Commandants is a bit confusing (ahah…maybe the penny has just dropped…HACs are possibly always just ever One Stars unless a higher rank is already held, whereas Air Commodore-In-Chief must be a substantive appointment, in the rank of ACM/MRAF)

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Wilf has offered the full answer but I’d suggest

If on duty as Sqn Ldr Wills salutes Dawn.

If on duty as Duke of Cambridge Dawn Salutes Wills

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Oh wow xD wasn’t expecting such a long answer but never the less it was a good read. Finally got some clarity to that shower thought xD.
Thank you wilf.

I recognise the Queen is ultimately the soverign who will appoint a commision i was just curious if his status as a royal would change the circumstances given that he is also personal ADC to the queen acting as effectively her emissary circumstances may change since he is representing the crown at a higher level of authority than the Air Cmdre.

None the less i thank you both for your answers :slight_smile:

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It’s almost like people have nothing better to do at the moment.

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Of course, any officers out together at the moment should be at least one metre apart, so all will have to be individually saluted by those junior to them! :wink:

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Umm…if only. Some of us are still just having to constantly multitask.

Excellent précis- but, are we agreed that we (as uniformed CFAVs/regulars/reserves) do not as a default, simply salute all nobility (& royalty) unless by exception and as a courtesy?

Many members of the Royal Family / nobility are current or former commissioned officers, but of course many are not. And my strong instinct is that those that are neither commissioned nor representing the Sovereign are not meant to be automatically-saluted.

Cutting to the chase: a good example would be the Prince of Wales. As a commissioned officer, he would always merit a salute, whether he was deputising for the Queen or not.

Whereas someone such as Prince Richard (the Duke of Gloucester) would not ever be saluted, unless as an informal courtesy or under some rare circumstance when he was representing the Queen.

Happy to be corrected on that, by anyone who’s got a convincing counter-argument. And maybe quotes from Debretts (which I don’t have!)

Always safer !-)

ps I’m old enough to remember when the Stn Cdr’s wife etc used to be saluted (as a courtesy, by all Offrs/Airmen&Airwomen). And his mother/sister (by…I think…just Airmen?)

Royalty at any level is to be saluted regardless of whether the recipient of the salute holds a commission.

Including a Lord Lieutenant … as a rep