CCF and ATC conversion

Everyone General Training
21

Not all. My CCF is a Grammar School and none of us are teachers, all external.

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It really will depend on the CO of your ATC unit.

I have a cadet who parades in both, you don’t need to do one or the other (assuming parades don’t clash).

She wears the same rank at both, but does her RAFAC bits primarily through ATC and focuses on more Purple stuff when at CCF.

23

You can be in both - JSP814 refers - but it needs both COs to agree if I remember correctly. Ironically this is quite common in CEP schools.

24

Thanks so much for reinforcing the chip on the shoulder stereo type of the ATC

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You’re welcome.
Personally I would shut down all CCF units.
I see them as divisive, segregational and only reinforcing elitist attitudes.
Your drill and uniform is gopping, and the set up where by CCF officers do not go to OASC makes a mockery of your side of the fence.

Money, resources and time should be funneled to the ATC.

It’s not us vs you, just good vs crud.

I’m not going to shirk from my opinion on the ccf one bit.

Some will agree, most will probably disagree. But then most have never seen or had to prop up the CCF shambles.

26

While we must not tar every unit with the same brush, I will acknowledge that CCF visitors to RAF stations tend to have a worse reputation from permanent staff on RAF stations than ATC visitors. Comments have been made expressing relief when we have followed a CCF(RAF) unit onto camp and staff learn that we are not CCF.

There are slovenly, troublesome ATC units and there are high-quality CCF units. I would suggest that the graph is skewed though.

It is a failure to expect these two separate organisations (albeit those under the generic RAFAC umbrella term) to have the same goals, the same limitations and the same ethos as each other - they are different beast operating in different worlds and with different aspirations.

There is much to be said for “the CCF model”, but step 1 needs to be for all CCF units to agree on, and follow, that model. It is more likely that the separate cadet forces tend towards the purple model than there is shutting down CCF and inheriting their money. We can just hole that the flaws with the CCF can be fixed during the transition.

(of course, as it will be army-led there will be more, newer flaws instead!)

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Dare I say it.
Time our organisation wad standardised!..

To the higher standards.

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Our own standards are highly variable, and dare I say it, some of our “ideal” bars are set way too high for what we are.

However, that could be a subject for another thread.

29

With your initial comments on ALL CCF units, possibly you may need to re learn RISE? Those are the standards our organisation aspire to achieve. Your comments are even more divisive, segregational and elitist than the organisation you accuse the same things of.

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I think that there is an inherent difference, given the entirely-voluntary nature of the ATC and the not-always-voluntary (staff and cadets) nature of the CCF.

I have to say that my only real, direct contact with the CCF has been through ACLC, where I imagine that the CCF contribution is from the much-more-voluntary end of their spectrum and I can’t honestly say that I see any significant difference between ATC and CCF in those circumstances.

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31
  1. Thank you for your enlightened attitude
  2. I assume you have no experience of CCF?
  3. The CCF in its previous guise as the OTC started long before any ATC/ACF units. They traditionally provide the Officer cadre, this isn’t the case nowadays.
  4. The one I work in was formed to provide Officers for the Boer War. We have a proud history of awards for bravery, senior officers and other notable military achievements
  5. Over 110 former cadets from my school died in the first war
    6.Over 200 died in the second , the majority in the RAF. The OTC joined in with the Home Guard and patrolled beaches, they even captured downed airman.
  6. Many CCF’s are in state schools, I know of several that are in very deprived areas.
  7. I have done many camps and activities with the wealthiest and the poorest, it breaks down social barriers hugely. They are just cadets at the end of the day. To see kids getting out of inner cities to a camp is one of the best experiences I have had. These kids do not have the parental support and guidance to join a community based cadet organisation. An after school activity is the best they can do… You of course would shut that down so the ATC could buy more banners or boot polish
  8. Drill and uniform is variable in the CCF, the best are as good as any Squadron. Some are poor but we are working on it. The ATC is of course exemplary every time, like the QCS but 15 years old. …yes right, all squadrons are perfection personified.
  9. All CCF officers go to Cranwell for IOT at the ATF, they do not attend OASC but possibly the fact that most have degrees and are experienced with working with young people helps. When I did my course two people dropped out, both ATC officers who didn’t realise how hard it would be.
  10. To say good vs crud is simply insulting and ignorant
  11. I have also experienced taking over a camp from the ATC where the ACLO has expressed relief that the CCF are taking over. I have also been told in several messes that CCF fit in better to an Officer’s Mess.
  12. I work for the RAF as a civilian, I don’t know if you realise it but the majority laugh at you… A Lot.
    They are of the opinion that you take life far too seriously and are stuck in an RAF that finished with National Service, a land of bullying NCO’s and Inneffective officers. That’s their opinion not mine.
  13. Finally I would like to point out that I have no problems with the ATC, I have met many fine people from the organisation and consider many to be friends. My school does several joint activities with the ATC and are taking part in the Wing Fieldcraft competition ( we came half way up last year). We are not twins we are more cousins, similar origins but different experience. We will continue to struggle to make headway though with outdated attitudes.
    I would urge you to think before you post.
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32

Wow. You summed up everything I would have said. Nice job.

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