I’ll bet you’ll still send your cadets if they’re given slots though won’t you???
Currently yes, purely because we have no other option.
However given the option, no, purely due to the 6+ hour round trip which someone has to drive, compared to just over an hour for 2 local flying schools and 1½ hours for another 2.
What would you do? A journey which takes the bulk of the day and fraught with all joys of potential hold ups and even then potentially not getting what you went for, due to something happening, despite assurances that everything was hunky dory. Or a considerably shorter journey where non delivery and a drive home isn’t so onerous.
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To be faIr, the “moving plan” had all the required elements incorporated, including the requirement for weekend Air Traffic cover; this had to be “filled” by additional FTRS slots which required approval / selection / recruitment.
I’d do exactly what you do because as you say there’s no choice.
What is objectionable is your description of what is provided as a ‘shambolic charade’.
If there were an alternative who’s to say it wouldn’t suffer the same or similar issues as AEF provision? Who’s to say it wouldn’t be even more of a ‘shambolic charade’??
Like lots of things in the RAFAC if you divided the cost spent on AEF up between the Squadrons would we be able to get the same (or better service) in the private sector?
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A couple of cadets/cadets parents from the Sqn are involved/use a civi flying school that’s a few hours drive from here - they get weather cancellations, but almost always the day, or two days before they were due to fly, but they (almost) never get cancelled because of ‘infrastructure issues’, and certainly not on the day - unless someone has broken their plane.
Sorry, but the current structure is absolutely crap at reliably delivering flying for cadets. You may dispute that - I couldn’t care less what you think tbh - but the ‘service’ we receive is so unreliable that there are now very few staff (here) who will agree to take cadets flying because it almost invariably means a wasted day.
The chances of that happening are prety near zero considering they operate from a civilian airfield with ATC and fire cover as required by the CAA for airfield operation. Airfileds closing due to ‘infrastructure reasons’ are a) losing money and b) operators tend to take a dim view of that situation and act accordingly.
The annual amount of money in total which includes the operation of 2AEF could, in my view, be more usefully spent purchasing civilian AEF with local airfields and their flying schools.
Edited to add there are at least 15 flight schools all within 2 hours drive from my location, from Mona to Carlisle.
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Serious Question how much does AEF cost?
To be honest Angus and bob it doesn’t matter what you think. You’re wasting your time venting about AEF provision whilst the current contract is in place.
Lots of things have to come together to provide AEF for cadets. Sometimes there are infrastructure, staffing or aircraft issues that are unforeseen. Those issues could affect any organisation that might provide an experience for our cadets. When cadets and staff have travelled only to be turned away for unforeseen issues nobody is happy.
Sometimes the issues are not communicated effectively. My experience is that every effort is made to cancel bookings if there’s a known problem. If the message doesn’t get through to the squadron staff and cadets travelling on that day it can be due to poor communication within the RAFAC.
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The problem of using civilian flying clubs under any formal arrangements made by a sqn is that currently such options are prohibited; ACTO35 is still frozen for such flights in non-Service aircraft.
Unless you are travelling to an overseas camp or IACE, then you have to employ civilian companies to undertake the activity, regulated just the same by the CAA. Do 2AEF inspect the civil airline?
I would suggest that “normal” airline passenger flying is exactly that, normal . No restrictions or limitations as such.
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@109115 We hear the excuses all the time, but just be honest with us. We’re all grown ups a phrase like “infrastructure issues” sounds a fob off and makes people thing there is something to hide.
I would sooner like to tell cadets and parents we aren’t going because … , rather than an empty stock phrase.
@daws1159 As for cost I think we all know the answer … bloody expensive (more than it should) purely and simply because it is run by the MoD. They seem to find ways to turn a blind eye to ridiculous costs, in turn squandering taxpayer’s money. If a 30 minute flight at a local flying school cost £100 with 35000 cadets, that’s £3500000 for a year.
The advisory email stated the full reason (lack of weekend Air Traffic), so no stock answer needed.
As to expense, don’t forget that we more or less “piggy-back” off the resources used by the UAS sqns.
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[quote=“Teflon, post:93, topic:6169”]
If a 30 minute flight at a local flying school cost £100 with 35000 cadets, that’s £3500000 for a year.[/quote]
So how much do you think the RAF subsidies the cost of AEF? The aircraft are not there for the sole use of RAFAC.
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I am fully aware we piggy back on UAS, I was just putting a suggestion as to what a more accessible and consistent option may cost.
Nothing will happen until the Babcock contract expires (not a clue when!) What is interesting is what’s the plan now the RAF have binned off the tutor for the prefect
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likewise local flying school aircraft are not sitting in hangers waiting only for 30 minute experience flights…
i know what your saying but Teflon has a point - does the addition of AEF to the Babcock contract equate to the “market value” for the product?
I was told at Cranwell recently that the Tutor contract is going from 55:45 in favour of the UAS’ to 55:45 in favour of ATC from this summer.
How this will actually manifest itself, I have no idea.
i can well believe that as i don’t imagine the UAS are very active over the summer - or at least less active given the universities are closed for the summer so less likely to have the students local to their chosen UAS.