Sqns phoning the AEF seems the main way AEF’s get info out. I know 7AEF also have an active FB page giving details ahead of the day, just in case.
As someone who works in communications - and has worked in communications for the RAF, ffs - this is not how communications works. How can we get it so wrong?
It’s RAFAC and the individual wings that decide how their AEF allocations are managed…
Don’t put the blame on the AEFs.
Some AEFs have social media pages that can provide useful information and updates. These social media pages are managed by the AEF staff on a voluntary basis, but I would agree are very effective if used well.
If the correct information doesn’t get out then sometimes a phone call is the best option.
What has this got to do with this topic? I’m not talking allocation problems
My question is about communications and vague reasons for cancellations. Something that has nothing to do with units or AvOs.
How the allocations are managed has everything to do with communication…
My experience is that when communication issues arise the wing or region AvOs are the ones that act as the go between with the units and the AEF.
It has everything to do with this topic…!!!
I get that you’re doing your best to defend the side that is seemingly outnumbered, but I’m sorry, I don’t buy this. The AEFs are providing a service, and if that service is withdrawn - and that can be for any number of reasons, the overwhelming majority of which are perfectly and entirely reasonable - the onus is and has to be on them to inform people.
I get that they might not have the tools. In which case they should ask for them and seek a better solution.
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But that’s the point. There shouldn’t be communication issues, there should be a far better end to end process in the first place.
Allowing it to get to the point where something has gone wrong is far too late. You’re trying to lock the stable door after the horse has bolted. We want to keep hold of the horse.
I agree, but in this case they weren’t told at all.
I don’t want to get into a slanging match.
You must admit that using a vague term such as Infrastructure problems just breeds cynicism! If something is broken, someone has gone sick and there is no cover or whatever the actual problem is, just tell us! You may find, as fellow volunteers, we would understand!
I’m guessing that 5 AEF suggest that travelling parties ring the AEF before setting off on their journey. The message was obviously received not to attend.
Maybe the message could’ve contained more detail? Perhaps it could’ve been dealt with differently in hindsight.
Sometimes we deal with issues the best way we can at the time. If you’re not happy with the way something is dealt with then you need to take it up with the appropriate people.
There’s a lot of fuss being made on this thread over nothing. Perhaps the ones making the fuss should put their best foot forward and start to communicate and ask the questions that will give them the answers they are so desperate to find?
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This requires the AEFs to understand the notion of being service provider and who their customers are. However it’s another case of having us over a barrel, so we don’t matter, as we can’t go anywhere else.
The AEFs are conspiring to give you the worst possible aviation experience. We’re not communicating with you because we don’t care??
If you went somewhere else, you don’t know it’d be any better…?
Have you realised we’re actually part of the same team?
Ignore him. The rest of us try to.
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For 5AEF, having used the answer 'phone method numerous times, it’s simple, it works, please don’t over-complicate things. The R Av O doesn’t need to be involved on the day.
Yes, the “infra-structure” part of the cancellation message is “sub-optimal” & can be improved on. When I see OC 5AEF (hopefully this weekend), I’ll pass on the feedback & I’m sure that he will be keen to improve the process; he’s been there for quite a while & is receptive to constructive criticism, & will always answer reasonable questions. 
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I’ll admit that I’m struggling a little to see what the issue with “phone us before you travel” and listen to an answerphone message actually is, apart from being a little bit 1997. Given that the AEF don’t know exactly which units will turn up (and don’t really need to know) and things can change at pretty short notice, why not do it this way? The attending unit will always know which AEF they’re going to, and as a simple SOP it seems perfectly sensible to me.
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As a user of 5SEF it has always been phone before you travel and as a matter of course I would phone en route just to make sure and be able to turn round if things change.
Messages saying; weather or lack of pilots or lack of aircraft etc were common, although the last one would result in an email on the Thurs or Fri.
my 2 pence worth
If we have to cancel cadets, I can the WAvO as I dont know what Sqns are attending. Its then down to them to contact the Units in question.
For CCFs I contact the POC at the school.
If its an individual unit that is attending, I would contact the staff responsible for the cadets on the day (we insist that a SPOC is given when bookings for individual units are made).
Be grateful you got a call and didn’t turn up to be turned away.
As was stated above they didn’t get a call, they phoned up and the AEF had recorded an answerphone message. If they hadn’t contacted the AEF they would have turned up only to be turned away.
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There is, to my mind, absolutely no problem whatsoever with the answerphone message as the way of confirming whether flying will go ahead at 5am in the morning.
No lost Comms, no uncertainty about whether you’re contacting the right person, and no accidentally waking up someone uninvolved at 5am - that doesn’t however mean that the message should be just ‘yes/no’.
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At 6AEF there is an online Google calendar and the RAvnO or CCF equivalent put a unit POC on the booking so the AEF can call them with cancellations. However I have to say the answerphone message is a good solution for units travelling some distance who ideally need a go/no go decision at 0500. Cancellation the day before is better but not always possible.
I agree that leaving an message on the number for the AEF saying that flying is either taking place or not is a reasonable solution to an initial communication problem. I do not expect the AEF to contact the Squadrons attending, mostly for the reasons given above around not knowing who is due to turn up.
But, and it is a big but, my issue is the excuse given, which is vague and open to many interpretations. When Squadron staff have to inform disappointed cadets and parents, they need a more precise reason, such as weather, maintenance, ATC or Fire cover, not “Infrastructure Problems”. Most people understand how many ducks need to be in a row to allow flying to take place.
Then not telling the AvO about it at all puts the AvO in a unenviable position when getting questions they can’t answer!!
Providing AEF for cadets for free is a logistical challenge, but, as I have said before, being vague about the reasons for it not happening when planned just breeds cynicism and scepticism!