in defence of the document the mention of the Brownies is in relation to the gender divide in the aviation industry.
mentioning the Brownie badge is a “tick box” to indicate that targeting female’s to gain an interest in aviation is being done.
the RAFAC is multi gender and although more successful (arguably) in what we do to encourage females in an aviation interest, it isn’t such a crisp tick in the box as we aren’t targeted as females.
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Because we aren’t a sexist organisation, blast knew that would be a negative eventually 
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You are clutching at some really tenuous straws with this one and using probably 2 or more logical fallacies.
care to expand?
are you indicating that it isn’t one of our aims?
Short version: the fact it is one of our aims does not make it directly or significantly relevant to the scope of the consultation.
The “hope” that we have an influence in future strategy is just that - a hope. Actually having an effect on the strategy is for those individuals whose interest has been piqued and who have pursued that interest into a relevant career.
Our aim is as stated. There it ends.
The UK aviation strategy may shape the future of the RAF Air Cadets, just as the Cyber strategy appears to be pulling our strings.
in much the same way the aviation badge aim at 7-10 year old girls doesn’t solve the gender gap in aviation…
No, it doesn’t; but that was in the news recently and the authors obviously latched onto it for some sort of context.
For all of the cadets I’ve seen since the mid 70s, for all the promoting an interest in aviation that was and has been done, the only ones who did anything vaguely aviation related on leaving was those who were sufficiently interested enough when they joined, to pursue it and even for some of them they never did it as a job. This was through the period when flying was a prominent activity and annual camps invariably meant getting up close to aircraft and their workings.
Other than that I don’t think it gets much further than “look mummy, there’s a aeroplane up in the sky” once they’ve left. So for all the platitudes and justification for existence line in our aims, I don’t really see our effect being that great.
Aviation like so many industries will only interest those that live close enough to make the commute worthwhile in relation to the pay.
I feel we should be doing much more organised flying with local flying clubs and then introducing cadets to something that is relatively close at hand that they can get involved in. But you need the carrot of a flight while doing something locally, (or more local than an AEF) organised through the Air Cadets. If cadets were just doing basic cleaning and maintenance, that has the real potential to lead to jobs. If we want to be as influential we might like to think we are we need to be looking at the aviation industry in its broadest terms, not just the glamour of ‘pilot’ and engineer, but the whole gamut of industries that feed into and from aviation.
Blokes I knew at school used to spend their spare time working with relatives doing construction trades and mechanics and a good number have gone on to jobs and a couple have successful businesses. One pair of brothers used to go around picking up bits from people’s houses for a few pence and taking to the local dump and went to eventually have a tipper company which has made them very, very comfortable. By that token if we got cadets working on local flying clubs there would be greater exposure and generation of an interest, but they need to have the chance of a treat for their labours. On that point the Air Cadets fail them.
It is a shame to hear you know of no one who picked up the interest in aviation post Cadets – however given your negative and pessimistic outlook on life, am I surprised?
I myself when I left university worked for an aviation company – several of my colleagues were fellow CFAVs all for the surrounding Squadrons.
I know one other I was a Cadet with who works for BAE Systems
Another Cadet peer is a BA pilot.
I know several former Cadets who have a PPL today, including myself all influenced by the time spent flying with the Cadet organisation.
One friend I know has taken his parachute course experience with him into his life after Cadets and remains his hobby after Cadets.
I know CFAVs who work in the aviation industry, at least two work in Air Traffic Control, one builds aircraft, another manufacturers components. I have two friends who work at airports as customs officers/security, and one of our Staff team works at an Airport. I also know of two former-Cadets who have become cabin crew.
The CWO from my days as a Cadet works for a space industry, their brother now a Sqn Ldr in the RAF.
One friend joined up and even joined the RAF Red Arrows Team as one of the “blues”, three others are aircraft technicians, another as RAF Regiment, two have joined the RAF as nurses.
As I sit here and type I can think of more who have joined the Army
I even know a CFAV who has since joined the RAF Reserves such was their passion and interest in wearing a blue suit.
It could be argued that the ATC as was had a limited influence on their career paths or choice of hobby, at best steered them towards an area of interest, but without much effort I can think of 15-20 names who have moved into an “aviation themed” career or hobby after being an air cadet themselves and at least half again who have joined up as a regular or reserve; that has to say something for the experiences and influences the organisation has had for those people to consider an aviation based career or hobby.
What I said was some of those that had an interest prior to joining as cadets have been the ones to take it forward. I only speak of the cadets who have been on the squadrons I’ve been on and can’t speak of others. It’s nothing to do with me personally. As fa as I’m aware we ae not a careers advisory service for the RAF or aviation industry. I’ve seen things come up stuck them on the wall at the hut mentioned it and left it at that, but because they aren’t local within 15-20 miles there’s no one interested and I am as sure as hell not being a taxi.
I had and still have an interest in aviation history, but not enough to make me look for a job in it. I did apply for the RAF and got a come back in 2 years letter, by which point I was almost engaged and earning a decent amount, so chucking it all in for the RAF, wasn’t going to happen. Too much of a risk in the mid 80s.
I don’t think the Air Cadets has ever done enough to really promote the wider opportunities in aviation, hence its overall impact is low.
I know a few staff around the wing who work in the broader industry and some of them are bores on the subject, thankfully the majority don’t get much passed this is what I do. I’m not one for banging on about my job, so show little interest in others, no matter what they do. I like to converse about families and other interests; music, films etc.
One of the funniest ones was a lad whose mum we know, had been on about him joining the cadets for two or three years, as he was mad keen on flying and had been going to the flying club his uncle and grandad went to since he was 9. By the time he joined the Air Cadets (2014) he was learning to fly and it’s safe to say the Air Cadets with the lack of aviation and all the other non-aviation stuff didn’t fulfil the expectation and he went after around 15 months. I know he’s got his PPL and is just finishing an aviation related BTEC, but it would be a massive stretch to say the air cadets influenced him.
Surely its your job as an OC to promote the wider opportunity in aviation? With resources dwindling in the wider RAF it is incredibly difficult for a national approach, but i know many squadrons making there own inroads with there local stations/AFCO’s/local flying clubs.
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Yet more evidence that some people are clearly unsuited to be a leader in the air cadets and should just ponce off to the scouts
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How do you figure that?
Because its our aim and its at the top of the list:
To promote and encourage among young men and women a practical interest in aviation and the Royal Air Force
You can take that as literally as you want really.
I arrange for pilots/engineers/people in industry to come in a couple of times a year for a chat. We also take our cadets to local airports or local clubs to visit different sections. As well as visits to aviation museums etc etc. That adds on to the corps summer/easter camps and special visits etc.
As a newbie OC i lost sight of our three aims for a while and focused to much on badges and certificates and squadron performance tables. It didnt take long for it to drain the life out of me.
Now i try and do a 50/50 split and try and do more of the things that i enjoyed as a cadet. It transformed my squadron.
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You can promote all you like, but as the saying goes ‘you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink’.
Over the years I’ve found some things advertised at a local airport and with a couple of large companies, goes on the wall and it’s up to the cadets to act.
Things get into the comic so there is another avenue. If the aviation industry was that bothered they would be doing more.
If we went down the local flying club route it would have to be the cadets getting themselves mobile to do it. But they are over 20 miles from us, unless there is a family link that’s not going to happen and we are not a taxi service.
You need to have that latent interest in aviation and I would say it’s fair to say not very many cadets in my experience join with that interest. They see the Air Cadets as a place to meet new people and make some mates and so some things. We are not a recruiting service for anyone.
So what are all the marvellous things all the people here are doing, especially those who don’t live near an airport or flying club, been in the RAF; have a PPL or work in the aviation industry or have staff with any of these? Just give a poor misguided soul like me a clue, that doesn’t involve me or the staff on the squadron, dipping more into our spare time taking cadets all over the place.
this speaks volumes. (particularly my bold)
it sounds like you want a golden arrow to hit the target but without putting in any effort.
you opened your statement by leading a horse to water…
what solution do you want which requires no effort from your or your staff that isn’t the same??
to answer the question seriously, visits to an airshow, or aviation museum tick the boxes, both are trips I have conducted and filled the transport, whether a 17 seater or on two occasions a 55 seater!
(airshows have been 70 miles away, museums even further on one occasion)
You can’t travel 70 miles. Poor Teflon will get a nosebleed being that far from home
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The things we should be looking at are things like a bloke mentioned at work today. His 15 year old niece went to a BA(?) careers event one evening about a month ago in North London and came away more informed. His niece has wanted to work in aviation in some form since she was little, he said she’s fascinated by accident investigation. He said his sister-in-law went and wished she was 30 years younger.
Did any cades from that area know about it and or go to it?
Things like this are far better than air show trips etc, as it gives all cadets the opportunity to find out what they could do within the industry.
I often find things like this and advertise them to cadets who then go. I know you hate social media but by following a couple of regional aviation officers and the commandant you find out about these non cadet events when they retweet them. @tmmorris is a good one to follow for that
Seconded!!
We take our Cadets to the local Royal Aeronautical Society Talks (RAeS) ok so these are not careers events, and mainly historical stories of how Concorde was designed, or how Drone technology will change aviation but these are aviation related topics, delivered by experts. It may only be that 3-4 Cadets are interested each time but they get to hear a aviation theme lecture delivered by a industry expert. it plants that seed.
Although we adopt the Teflon approach by only sharing the topic or event rather than offering it as a event with transport, if there are careers events occurring locally we do share these on our Facebook group so the Cadets and Parents can see them.
With my own personal following of aviation in various groups I am aware of and share opportunities like the following
Flying Scholarships
Tiger Moth flights for £10
One Cadet I know applied for a scholarship last year and spoke to me about what to include in their application. They were not successful, but i was heartened that it was being picked up by someone…