I agree that something that is properly set up and run ethically and professionally, could be of benefit. I also agree that if it ISN’T set up properly, then it will be doomed to failure.
Some posters here suggest that OC Wg’s should be following proper procedures etc but how many times have we seen in our own formations, that this isn’t happening, or, the OC Wg’s are part of the problem, not the solution?
I doubt HQAC would ever recognise or support in any way, an entity over which they have absolutely no control but I feel that something needs to be done and in such a way that they have to look inwardly and ask themselves: ‘what is it that we aren’t getting right. WHY are the volunteers up in arms?’
There are without doubt, a fair few volunteers who have felt ‘ganged up on’ in the past and the present. Who feel they’ve been unjustly dealt with. No support, no Assisting Officer appointed for them and then hung well and truly out to dry. Little wonder that there are some who are now turning to other means to get their collective point across.
For myself? I can fight my own corner (thanks to previous service and a little bit of procedural knowledge). However, I acknowledge that there are some members of staff who don’t have that experience and need alternative forms of support that aren’t forthcoming from within their CoC.
I wonder how many are up in arms though? The small percentage we have on here aren’t enough for us to use the members as a gauge, and anecdotally I know of several people that are pretty annoyed with the organisation but is it enough to really say we’re all up in arms?
You only have to look at the people replying to the Cmdts social media to see that there must be people who are happy with the way things are going…
The different comments on this thread are interesting.
Such an organisation can never cater for everyone’s needs, but it could be useful to have an organisation that just says “Why” every so often.
HQAC states that they consult with their staff, but when the results of the survey on the New Commission can back with an answer they didn’t want, they ignored it.
HQAC cannot keep treating us like employees, with staff contracts and minimum hours and then keep denying us that status when it will cost them lots, such as paid holiday or pensions (Not that I want a pension at all, just the principle!).
This is what I foresee such an organisation, be it ACSF or the CFAV Council, will supports us.
I have said it before in other threads, but as we are now not military, the exemption to Article 11 Human Rights Act, Right of Association no longer applies. So HQAC may have to allow such an organisation!!
I still don’t really understand what the OP thinks the result of this will be? What support are they planning on providing and how? In what cases will they work? How will it be run? By whom?
On the face of it is a good idea. If it is all above board has the support of a large section of the RAFAC it cannot be bad. Also I can see the need of secrecy in the beginning. I have read ACP 1 but the CoC is but above as bit of bullying and intimidation (sign by the 15 Oct or you are out) which is the very reason for this whole mess.
I have heard from a source high up that HQAC do not have a plan B for people not signing. The reason for the Pers form 1-19 has come from way above HQAC and if people do not sign the form and are forced out then so be it.
I will have to think long and hard about joining this group.
Will I still be in this organisation after Christmas, don’t know?
Do I want to sign the 1-19? No, been an CFAV for nearly 30 years and never had to sign anything before so I fail to see why I need to now.
Do I like the way the RAFAC is developing? No, it is not the organisation I joined as a CI back in the day, it is not even the same organisation it was 5 years ago.
Do I still care about RAFAC? Yes but I am slowly loosing the will to carry on.
If I am pushed will I be gutted? Don’t Know, I love the RAFAC, I am proud of the achievements of the cadets under my care and how they grow in the fertile soil that is the ATC.
Do I still enjoy being a CFAV? Not as much as I used to, the reason to carry on are getting less and less.
Do I still want to be involved in the RAFAC? That is the big question, we will see.
the organisation is not a democracy though. they could consult with 90% of the members with only 20% agreeing with the HQAC plan, doesn’t mean they [HQAC] will turn around their thinking.
consulting with the members, listening to members and reacting to and changing having heard the voice of the members are all very different
if this were true…why havent the SNCO cadre (and with that the CIs) have a group set up?
just be we are not “military” anymore doesn’t mean we [the grander organisation] was…
by the end of the year, 4 of my friends will of left the organisation between them over 100 years of adult service… I am very much now feeling wanting to leave.
And it’s sad, going by your 1993 then you joined the about the same time as me and we have witnessed the ups and downs and now what seems the death of what was once a fantastic organisation.
My friend put it best in their resignation…
before we always had idiots and muppets in the organisation who were only interested in themselves but now they have multiplied and we are surrounded by them. There are still some great and fantastic staff out there but they are being overrun by these people who have nothing better in their lives and are going out their way to make empires or climb up some imaginary staircase in desperation to show off how great they are and forget the reason we all joined the corps as staff…
Trades Unions came into being because of unfair and inconsistent working practices and the early days people running them were those wronged by the bosses, who sought to get better conditions etc.
The vast majority of people join unions for the protection it affords when things go wrong not any political or malicious reasons.
As @Gunner says they need to get out of RAF mode and into volunteer mode at HQAC and really understand what makes us tick. We are not a mini RAF for people ro keep playing RAF in, we are a youth organisation affiliated to the RAF and we are all (or mostly all) adults volunteering on this basis, not because we want to be in the RAF. If staff are leaving and not coming in, in sufficient numbers to make the losses, then someone at HQAC has to explain why and potentially lose their job.
I’m not saying everyone is ‘up in arms’. We should also bear in mind that there are thousands of CFAV’s out there who aren’t members of ACC and no doubt a proportion of them, will have at one time or another, been the subject of unfair disciplinary procedures.
Who knows? If a ‘Federation’ is created and they hear about it, who’s to say that they won’t swell the numbers and make it a force to be reckoned with?
Not really a gauge of happiness or positivity.
A way to put social media responses into context is to look at the case of one of the extreme right wing groups, who put a picture of a kitten or something on FB which got lots of likes so they get a positive in terms of FB activity. This can be then regarded by the organisation that they are good and doing something right, but the problem is people using social media have just looked at the picture gone “ahhhhh” and click like, it doesn’t mean that they are happy about what that group stands for, but the stats would say otherwise.
CAC puts something on about a visit somewhere and likewise people aren’t going to be negative, are they?
Then there is the “fear” of a witch hunt if someone did say something derogatory.
One of the problems with social media is that people with a small group of followers from a niche group who fawn all over them can very quickly get an over inflated sense of their own importance and influence. Unfortunately I think a certain female Air Cdre has fallen into this trap.
Paid employees have employment contracts, which usually include grievance and disciplinary procedures. An employment contract also gives you other rights, such as the right to take your employer to an employment tribunal.
As a volunteer, you won’t usually have a contract. This means you won’t have the same legal status and protections that paid workers have in the UK. Volunteers don’t usually have the right to have an organisation follow proper investigative procedures when things go wrong. They also don’t have the right to appeal a decision made by the organisation.
In a small number of cases, the courts have found that the terms of a volunteer’s agreement with an organisation did amount to a contract. In these cases, volunteers were able to establish employment rights.
Trade unions
Some volunteers join trade unions and have sought union representation in cases of disagreement with the organisation they volunteer for.
Trade unions that accept volunteers as members include:
However, this can be difficult where volunteers are not a member of a trade union before the dispute occurs, because trade unions may not be able to offer representation for a case which precedes someone’s membership.
Lack of legislation can make representing volunteers a complex process.
The actual webpage goes into a lot more…
I love the idea of some sort of support for CFAV (and civ com/ padres) that works in partnership with RAFAC otherwise how effective can it be?
If not done properly we will just end up with a witch hunt with staff being purged left, right and centre… and for what? wanting to be part of a support network that looks after their interests…
If it were ti wirk at all it needs to be formalised, recognised, structured and availible for ALL up and down the country.
There’s a whole thread on here discussing the “honours” system. And all that rubbish.
People get handed that crap to make up for screw ups, or being Bessie mates with whoever.
It’s all about distraction. Look at the shiny shiny… forget about the problems, it’s all about positivity…
I think it speaks volumes that it’s got to this point and it’s being discussed, maybe the caviar eating pen pushing desk jockeys will take notice. But then again, probably not, they still get their old pension scheme.
You have to be a union member for a minimum thirty days before you can be represented and as a rep I couldnt represent anyone in any case which predates a membership starting. Ive lost count of the people over the years who come to the union after the crap hits the fan.Its too late then.
