Can’t agree enough. Cadets don’t join a second school when they join the organisation. I’ve still not met a cadet who enjoys “learning” through the classification syllabus.
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That’s down to the OC. I know Sqns who only do one night a week
So do I, but that’s not the the expectation within the wider organisation, and it’s not the offer to potential staff.
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Agree so much (though I’d keep it as an option for those that are interested). The classification system should include basic aviation knowledge but should be joined up more to the PTS on a points system and military/leadership skills.
We’ve already seen the uncoupling of instructor cadet and classification let’s keep it going.
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We teach kids how a jet engine works, but not how to use hand, body and ground signals to talk to a helicopter crew.
We teach kids how a ballistic missile uses the stars to navigate to a point 10,000 miles away, but not how they can use the sun and the stars to navigate their way along a 4 hour walk.
#barkingupthewrongtree #lotsitsway
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One night a week would be easier if there wasn’t expectations to do things like classifications and PTS as it could become one night a week just to do those, which just seems quite dull. Remember all these things are shown on SMS and people will be held to account and questioned if they aren’t ticking boxes. So the training would need to be changed to accommodate one night a week.
While OCs can decide to do one night a week as @angus says the expectation up high is sqns do 2 nights a week. There is another side in that a change of OC could see a move back to 2 nights, so a national one night a week would remove that possibility.
I know one DF which does one night a week as the place they use gets used every other night by other groups, the bloke I know there says they find it hard to get cadets through the basic things. We do one night during the summer hols but don’t anything remotely “cadety academic”, we get them doing bits with the garden, local walks, evening archery as long as the weather plays ball.
Our RC said recently we need to question the old way of doing things if we’re going to move forward, including why we think it necessary to parade twice a week…
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Blimey.
Not a problem if they downplay their expectations of what is achieved.
I hear they’ve also developed a rather convincing Charlie chaplain impression
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with fear of sounding like senior management: don’t come to me with a problem if you have no solution
What alternative subjects would you suggest?
personally as an aviation themed organisation the topics give or take are relevant, however accept the delivery is too “schooly” by the use of classrooms, training material and exams.
can the same be achieved without such a format? with some effort a good portion yes, but and this is a big but
1 - the training is linked to classification badges, remove the training requires a change to the classification system
2 - Squadron buildings are a selection of rooms, not workshops to be practical in, and best set up for classroom/school type lessons
3 - changing the subjects are not what the CFAVs know - many Staff, uniformed or CIs are seen as the “specialist” for teaching a certain subject, remove propulsion style questions or pilot related topics some CFAVs may find themselves lost with a new syllabus without these topics.
don’t get me wrong, i like the idea of removing the exam/testing element of the classification training we offer, and i certainly where possible ignore the use of the powerpoints and make training more interactive where i can, but for volunteers with limited infrastructure not sure how else the same can be achieved as effectively
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As has been said on here repeatedly, get rid of the classroom learning completely and link direct to PTS.
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the problem of ‘what do you replace the academic programme with?’ doesn’t occur - take Sqns down to one night a week and you instantly halve the time we have/have to fill. 10lb of stuff doesn’t go into a 5lb bag.
the academic programme isn’t why we’re here, the academic programme supports (supported?) the IRL flying programme - when i was a 14yo cadet and i climbed into a Chipmonk and the bloke let me fly it for 20 minutes then Air Nav and the principles of flight were subjects that were of immediate relevence to me, it actually mattered that i understood them, and - unlike the Pythagorous theory lesson i was falling asleep during at school - i could see that next weekend i would be putting this stuff to actual use. that in itself made the subjects not just usefull, but interesting.
now, sadly, with the effective death of cadet flying, this stuff just isn’t relevent, and therefore interesting, to 99.998% of cadets - they get this stuff at school, and unlike in the past, when its placed infront of them in the ACO, they know that it will have no more relevence to them than the Pythagorous theory they’ll be bored rigid by during double Maths.
staffing is already a problem - in the three Sqns i know well there’s not one single CFAV who knows this stuff from an academic or professional background. a couple are moderately interested on a personal level, but thats it. conversely, in the Sqn i was in as a cadet, all the staff knew this stuff because our local economy was dominated by the aerospace and nuclear power industries - here its farming, agriculture and tourism, and the nearest person who really undserstands it all, and is particularly interested, probably lives 20 miles away.
dropping to one night a week would make recruiting staff easier - less commitment - as it would with cadet recruitment. we’re in a very rural area, public transport doesn’t exist, and a full half of the cadets in my Sqn live more than 3 miles from here. parental support is critical, and i’ve had more than a few leave because their parents simply weren’t able (rural area: large distances, low wages compared to urban areas, higher prices for goods and services) to keep putting petrol in the car to bring cadets back and forth twice a week.
ditiching the academic syllabus would be popular with the cadets - they come here despite it, not because of it - it would be popular with our staff because they would no longer be required to teach something they don’t know and have little interest in, and dropping to one night a week would be popular with parents and staff.
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My suggestion’s always been that we don’t bin the academics, just make it a PTS.
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i have to agree with a lot of that, but the 10lb into a 5lb comment made me think
is the classification system simply a filler??
taking into account all the talk about aviation topics are less relevant to a Cadet population that doesn’t experience flying anymore (when it was relevant) are we using this simply as a filler for one evening a week* and/or to complete that vague promise of walking away with a “BTEC in aviation studies” - and if the later is true, how many genuinely benefit from it?
I am know there will be some where it makes a real difference to what they can shout about on a CV, but as a population what % of Cadets is that?
(if we were talking about first aid the counter argument will be if it saves just one life then the training is worth it…but we’re not - so what is the positive outcome in the real world?)
I think the argument about not being able to see the practical side of the classification training is the most powerful comment.
Flying schools, flying clubs and even the commercial sector are seeing fewer former Cadets as members/applicants in part because the ATC is not inspiring a future filled with aviation in our Cadet’s minds due to the lack of opportunity to get flying.
For those who do, myself included the theory is that bit easier having some familiarity with thanks to my time as a Cadet.
my worry however is if we lose the training, when (if) flying returns to a regular activity (be that via AEF or Civilian routes) how do we get that training and initial understanding of aviation back into the program?
*that is how it happens on our unit, during the winter months, one evening a week is classification lessons
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On the surface that sounds reasonable, with each badge neatly fitting in to the system.
But then we’d inevitably face a restriction in not being allowed to deliver silver and gold level courses ourselves 
To be completely fair, i dont know a lot of squadrons in my area that actually deliver a lot of senior/master subjects, so may not necessarily be a bad thing that the kids get decent instruction from someone with a clue!
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A genuine commitment to equality of opportunity for all cadets would be nice.
For example, the Welsh Government has removed funding for the CVQO BTECs for Welsh cadets (education being a devolved issue). HQAC making a commitment to fund BTEC places for Welsh cadets so that they can still complete them without paying out of their own pocket would be nice. Wales being comparatively poorer than Scotland and England a lot of cadets (and their families) simply can’t afford to fork out for the BTEC. [What added value the BTEC actually provides is another issue entirely].
I appreciate this is a niche issue but I think it highlights wider problems we as an organisation face.
This ties into the rural/urban divide just as much it does the regional divide.
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Ditching the academic syllabus (which we only deliver for 3 months of the year anyway) would not enable most Squadrons to drop to 1 night a week. For my unit it might allow us to drop to 2 nights a week but I doubt it.
Well, gold should be QAIC anyway - hopefully silver should still be OK
One this i have seen in the both south wales wings is the closing for the valleys and rural sqns. The is a drift to the larger town and cities on the coast. The parents of these cadets have to make two round trips of at least half an hour to get their children to my unit from communities that used to have a sqn or DF. The next closest unit is another is 15 minutes away from me, that is a 30 minute round trip that is something that parents cannot do. by the time they get home it it be a cup of tea and back u to collect their children. Already there is one unit in my wing who only parades one night a week but is open for over 3 hours because of the distance some of their cadets travel.
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