The positives in the Corps mostly stop at the volunteer level, including the cadets. If I didn’t get something from seeing the cadets achieve and feeling to be part of that, then I’d leave. Cliched maybe but that’s how it is. At squadron and wing level the majority of the people know why they are there. Although I do wish Wing would push things up the chain when it’s something that people aren’t happy about. We’ve had COs meetings and sector meetings raising concerns and annoyances and the frustration is palpable at the lack of action.
Above that the people seem to be along for the ride getting a second or third bite at the RAF, which seems even more to be the case since the SDRs chopping the RAF to the bone. The cadets are almost a necessary evil.
When you look at FTRS salaries you have to wonder what it is they do to earn it. Coming along to parades and visiting squadrons doesn’t earn the salaries. These people have contacts etc that with very little imagination have the potential to bring benefits to the organisation. FFS we use contacts and acquaintances at sqn level to do thius
I think you are telling yourself that, but in truth you don’t enjoy it
Sorry GHE got to agree…
I would suggest you go and have a good few weeks away from the squadron and do a bit of searching.
Ask yourself honestly
What do you get out the cadets?
Do you really enjoy what your doing?
A good break sometimes does the world of good, you could return with a recharged battery or realise the spark has went out for you and your doing it now out of habit.
I have just had the same talk with my WO, she’s got umpteen bars to her CFM now and the same attitude you have. Why do I believe she’s still there, because she’s scared to leave, doesn’t have anything else to do on parade nights since she’s being doing the same thing for umpteen years. It’s not a nice think to have to discuss but sometimes you need to.
My suggestion was if she felt she desperately wanted to keep being a part of the corps then also to consider leaving the coal face and help in the Civ Comm where she can help there and if those NCOs coming after her need help she can give out some friendly advice. Also she can spend more time with the family.
Perhaps it’s something to consider…
Surely this is one of the lessons we teach the cadets - ie to not expect a ‘present’ every time they do what is expected of them? We are, after all, shaping the next generation, and instilling a ‘don’t do anything unless you get something out of it’ attitude will only serve to ensure the next generation are more selfish, surely?
However, I do believe a ‘memento’ of sorts would be nice for the cadets. I am a police officer by day and each one of us who were in the job at the time of the Olympics received a commemorative medal marking the occasion. It is certainly something I will treasure, and a story to tell the kids in the future, but I didn’t go in to the police to receive recognition for just doing my job.
Maybe we should just get the cadets involved in as much as we can, let them enjoy every minute of it & not care what they ‘get out of it’?
My 2p worth, anyway.
i think there has been confusion here with regards to what the ‘what’ should be.
i think the number of cadets/staff who will feel part of something because they recieve some tatty badge, or mug, or commemorative toilet roll holder, and who will keep and treasure that_ accessory_ and have it inspire them in future life will be zero. and if its not, it should be.
on the other hand, if as an organisation the ACO were to try and squeeze out those extra bits - more annual and wing/region camp spaces, more opportunity flights, negotiate deals with commercial AT providers for Sqn camps, convince CAS to lay on flights to the Falklands for a whole Summer/winter camp programme (a fortnight for each region, each with a cadet from each Sqn?), then those are the things that will stay with a cadet, inspire them, motivate them, and seem like a cause for celebration.
the last celebratory gift was a cause only for recycling…
Good point Angus.
What about a Challenger Coin for all as a keep sake? But not the cadet waving bye-bye to the glider motiff please.
As for other activities, why not something per Wing across the piece; a Voyager flight per Wing maybe 
[quote=“Plt_Off_Prune, post:22, topic:2164, full:true”] I think you are telling yourself that, but in truth you don’t enjoy it
[/quote]
I adjusted my whole way of doing things last year. I told the other staff on the sqn I was going to take classes and do what I’m supposed to, as I had fallen into the trap of allowing myself to become office bound. They said they saw a change in me and I seemed to be enjoying it again. I take nights off, spend one in 3 or 4 sitting in the office and look at emails once a week, to see if there’s anything specific to me. So I enjoy it in my own way.
The problems we have in the organisation is that we are increasingly legislated to do this, do that by people who haven’t got a scooby and know that we’ll fall in with whatever they say because we want to see cadets do things, not because we think what they suggest offers any extra value to us or the organisation.
We won’t touch the flying/gliding debacle.
The 75th Anniversary (like all anniversary’s) should be a landmark event, that they have had several years to plan for, but you get the idea someone woke up in the back end of last year and thought next year is the 75th “what we gonna do now” (as per Spike Milligan’s Q) and came up with swimming the channel, a torch procession that isn’t a torch it’s a stick and a sports day. Which falls for us and the cadets to take the time out to arrange / do something for. Nothing in an organisation that is suffering to lift the gloom and make everyone feel better. As angus suggests more and or bigger camps with the things we should be doing, but with no input from squadron staff and cadets other than turn up.
I’ve gone through a Silver Wedding anniversary and Golden for my parents.
It was my parents Golden Wedding 5 years ago and my, brother and I started planning for it 18 months beforehand. We did mum and dad proud, friends and relatives gathered for an afternoon do the weekend before and nice meal just for the close family on the actual day. Judging by what we get in the Corps, the senior managements parents might get a bag of chips and a night in front of the tele. We even manage a night out for our wedding anniversary and our Silver was a good day and evening.
My company celebrated it’s 80th 3 years ago and we were asked for pictures, annecdotes, old employees were contacted and local hotel was hired for us to turn up to, which included a free bar and food.
It will be interesting to see what comes out for 2018.
You complain every year about everything though. Stop kidding yourself fella. Find a new hobby?
Our cadets should hopefully walk away from the 75th with abiding memories of what really matters … the local connection. The Civ Comm have been looking at what we might get produced by the local trophy shop to give to the cadets. It will be our design and playing no homage to the corporate nonsense.
I have been bitterly disappointed by HQAC’s lack of anything other than the nonsense we’ve been told about. Their lack of ability, vision and foresight has been nothing less than what we have come to expect. It does seem that anything a little bit difficult is seen as an insurmountable obstacle and they give up, if these people had been around 75 or even 78 years ago, this organisation wouldn’t have existed or worse still we would all be speaking German. But then like now the cadet experience has little or nothing to do the higher command, it’s all about the local people involved in the units.
Some of the things mentioned
"more annual and wing/region camp spaces, more opportunity flights, negotiate deals with commercial AT providers for Sqn camps, convince CAS to lay on flights to the Falklands for a whole Summer/winter camp programme (a fortnight for each region, each with a cadet from each Sqn?), then those are the things that will stay with a cadet, inspire them, motivate them, and seem like a cause for celebration."
might be difficult (all but impossible now) but they could have been arranged 2-3 years ago. I wonder as by comments here and among staff what exactly the senior people at HQAC/ACMB do to justify their salaries. From what you see not a lot, they seem to sit around coming up with reasons why things can’t be done, rather than what they can be. Squadrons wouldn’t exist if the volunteer staff took their approach and mindset. I think that the majority of abiding memories the cadets will have of this year and every other year will be from their squadrons and not HQAC, the assorted anonymous glad handers from Cranwell and RHQs will turn up for a photo shoot and social media opp, to bathe in the glory and take the plaudits while having had nothing to do with it.
GHE is not the problem here. It’s you* Prune, old chap…
Because you don’t complain about the dire state of the ACO right now. When GHE complains the stufffed shirts and o2 thieves drawing an FTRS salary, topping up their pensions and spending most of the time on the golf course, can ignore him. When they can no longer fade him out, they can just point at you and Say ‘Prune is quite happy with it. Be like Prune or p_i_ss off’
They are playing you off against each other, so they don’t have to tackle the issues.
All I would say, is that even when I was a cadet in the 80s, there was a disconnect between Sqn and Wing, and Wing were in it for Wing and what Wing could get out of it, and little or no interest was taken in the cadets or their satisfaction. There were just as many uniform collectors living out an RAF fantasy then as there are now.
For the 60th, I believe some Wings organised a ‘Summer Solstice in the Air’ event with local VGS. The idea was to break a record on the number of launches on the longest day of the year and get as many cadets off the ground as possible. I believe some AEFs also did similar.
Some hope of doing that now! I knew there would be trouble buying gliders from ‘ze Germans’ and then PFI-ing them off for a buck or two
_
*Nothing personal. But if nobody ever complained, nothing will change. Or are you simply concerned about his mental health? I wouldn’t be because he is not the only poster here articulating the same things. If he is still contributing something positive on the Sqn there is nothing wrong with him either, and there is no reason for him to stop complaining about very real concerns, poor strategy and leadership.
_
[quote=“Plt_Off_Prune, post:20, topic:2164, full:true”]
I’ve never seen you extol a positive message about the ATC.
[/quote]You can put me in that class too.
Doesn’t mean we don’t want the best for it. Truth is I like cadetting, and the ACF hasn’t got its head up its arse to the same extent that the ATC has presently. If you were to sort it out and I_ might_ be tempted to come back.
But if no one speaks out, and walks away unhappy, it will never change, and then it will wither and die. All of the Cadet Forces need to be careful, as although we have had some recent good publicity, Government and the public have short memories, and the last time we had long term austerity governments, public funding disappeared altogether. If staff cannot be retained and numbers fall, we might all be for the axe
Kong (and others on here to be honest), I think you need to look at FTRS conditions of service. You can’t get your pension at the same time, so no ‘topping up’ as you say. And there’s very few ex-regulars at HQAC these days, the majority of the officers there are VR(T) civil servants.
True that FTRS salaries don’t ‘top-up’ their pensions but FTRS service attracts an additional pension which - effectively - ‘tops-up’ the regular pension.
The ex-regs that I’m aware of at HQAC are:
CAC
COS
Wg Cdr Phys Ed
Wg Cdr CCF
Sqn Ldr CCF
OC ATF
Adj ATF
WO ATF
FS ATF
TG5
So still quite a few. The only one I know of that is now VR(T) is TG5, the remainder on the list are either FTRS or Civil Servants but ex-regs all the same.
You’re right Gunner, they do qualify for another pension as FTRS, but that, and their Regular one can’t be drawn until they cease service, so they’re not topping up Civil Service salaries with pensions as several people on here seem to bleat about. I think, but I’m not sure, that ex Regs can’t draw their pension if they go straight into the Civil Service either, but I’ll happily stand to be corrected on that.
Looking at your list of ex Regs at HQAC, how many are actual policy makers and drivers for the mainstream ATC? Rule out the 4 at ATF and the 2 CCF and there’s only 3, and 2 of those are FTRS, so not many who actually fall into the ACC whingers category of ex Regs drawing fat pensions and Civil Service pay!
Civil Service or not in their current posts, we can’t get away from the fact that they ARE all ex-regulars.
You’re absolutely right about the pension aspect - they can’t draw it all the while they are drawing the pay for their role; and whilst I also am unsure about the CS -v- RAF pension aspect. I doubt they could draw a service pension, especially if they are commissioned into the RAFR . I suspect that TG5 and Adj ATF (who are both VR(T)) [I]might[/I] be able to draw any pension they may be entitled to. In my last post I failed to mention that Adj ATF is also VR(T).
Re: policy-makers and general movers and shakers, I’d argue that at least six out of the ten fall into that category.
CAC - obviously
COS - obviously
Wg Cdr Phys Ed - sets AT policy
Wg Cdr CCF - sets the wider CCF(RAF) policy which also dovetails with that of ATC policy (in some respects at least, given the transfer of functional command to the Army)
OC ATF - will have an input into staff training policy
WO ATF - has a major input into D&D & uniform policy
I agree that the numbers of ex-regular personnel employed at HQAC have fallen over the years but there is still a substantial presence at command level.
… who we’re agreed don’t also draw ‘fat cat’ pensions!
And so what if there are ex Regs at HQAC? Where’s the injection of Service ethos going to come from? For many reasons, it’s sadly lacking at the coal face, or doesn’t that matter?
It depends what you mean by service ethos?
The inititiatives that have been run in schools using ex-service personnel, seem to be based on the principles of having to work hard to overcome barriers, teamwork and self discipline.
This is evident on squadrons across the country, but when you look at what comes out of our ex-service personnel in the ivory towers, there is no sense overcoming barriers, when you take into account the problems we have in the Corps, lack of camps, flying, gliding etc etc, there is a very real sense of them giving up and then if squadrons and wings are doing something off their own bat and getting things done, there is a willingness to introduce policies and or admin to put hurdles in the way. There was a lot of white noise about the OASC for VR(T) introducing a military mindset in us civvies dressing up two nights a week, I see little eveidence especially in the last 2 years of this in those who have been employed in these capacities in the RAF that have slithered into the ACO.
In my real job we work together, yes there is a hierarchy BUT from the senior board members to the newest bod, we know we need to be profitably productive appeasing our customers be that the general public in terms of our products or internally fofor the services we provide and that this is reciprocated. Thankfully we don’t work like the ATC. We have to deal with enough regulation from faceless civil servants and accreditation bodies, such that our company doesn’t layer extra administrative burden on us. If we allowed a two week (let alone years) hiatus in our major products we’d all be down the job centre, yet after nearly two years with no gliding and where I am no AEF, the people in Cranwell and 22 Gp are still getting paid, it is an unreal existence that I do not understand.
Frankly the people at HQAC need to forget their military thinking and remember they are there to facilitate things for the cadets and staff (customers) in the organisation and not the other way round and if it wasn’t for us, they wouldn’t be gettng the chance to play like they do. I recall from the email trail last year wrt the shooting problems CAC quoted a drop in numbers of 3000 cadets over recent years as we had lost gliding and other opportunities had been massively reduced, as she pleaded for some sort of fudge to allow us to keep shooting as to lose that as well indefinitely would not be good. You would like to hope that this was she realised that her customer base wasn’t happy and not to keep her nice little number going. I suspect the latter.
Whatever FTRS conditions are, some SLAs and performance objectives need to be set and no more of this jobs for the boys or consolation prizes for those who didn’t make WO1 or LE commissions.
If they spend 60% of their time on the golf course I don’t care as long as they pick up the phone and generate some goodwill and opportunities for the cadets and staff, instead of petulantly saying ‘No’ to everything and burying us in tedious and unnecessary bovine bowel product. I can well see why some of them have failed the board and their petty rage is palpable even through the medium of email.
Blimey, what a negative question… You must be part of London Wing PMSL!
Seriously, its an anniversary, not an award ceremony…
Its all about awareness and enjoying the fact that we have lasted 75 years, so either take part in something and be seen or stay in the broom cupboard out of the way.
If anybody gets anything, then great, if they dont, who cares, just be happy for lasting so long 
Show as many people as you can that our oganisation is fantastic, and does have some fantastic people in it, albeit so few of them, 75% I have met are 2 faced gits only interested in themselves, but I ignore that and focus on the cadets…
Glaas empty, do yourself a favour and take a few months off and spend the time getting back to the roots of what interests you, that led you to the ACO, and see if you really miss it. Either that or resign, as your attitude is just dire.
I’ve had more than my far share of knives in my back over the last 5+ years, for always trying to do the right thing by my squadron and its cadets, so yeah, I could tell you some shockers, but I dont sit about moaning, just find a way past it or go elsewhere.
[quote=“RCITGuy, post:39, topic:2164, full:true”]Seriously, its an anniversary, not an award ceremony…
Its all about awareness and enjoying the fact that we have lasted 75 years, so either take part in something and be seen or stay in the broom cupboard out of the way…
[/quote]
It’s not an award ceremony, but don’t you think it would be nice for the cadets and staff for that matter to have something specical to remember it?
What we have on offer parades and alike which all require cadets and staff to be doing something and missing out enjoying the moment as they’ll be rushing . I don’t know about you but I’ve done many parades over the years marking ‘special events’, but they just parades and merge into each other.
The concern is that we supposedly have career officers at Cranwell and between them they haven’t been able to deliver. There seems to be a lack of initiative or ability to think in the group which is very worrying. Why there couldn’t have been a commemorative coin or set of stamps and every single member of the Corps gets one. Not much I know but at least it would be something.
Search Air Cadet League of Canada, (not sure how to put a link on) there is a selection of 75th bits and pieces and a lot more besides. As far as I can see there is nothing at all for the 75th here.