I agree. My cadet for a non-RAFAC GS but weather prevented the solo. 2FTS said no to any recognition as they couldn’t be sure of the standard of teaching, or that it covered all the requirements.
What about training cadets in powered aircraft to first solo and qualify for “civilian wings”?
Any 16 yo with well off parents can go to an ATO / DTO and pay the going rate for flight instruction, but we should be able to do better than that for cadets.
Instructor time could be free for cadets, which just leaves the cost of the aircraft and there are ways that could be subsidized. AFIK there is only one ATO that can authorize cadets solo in powered aircraft (Tayside Aviation). Do you think they could allow solo at other ATOs?
If it was a requirement then from that point they could simply start recording it if they weren’t previously.
Also, I think you misread Ortac’s post.
could? yes
will they? no - they won’t want to offer competition to the contract they already have with Tayside for a start.
no point setting up a contract for all Cadet scholarships to go through training school A only to spend the time and money to set up a training school B.
1 - a waste of taxpayers money to provide something that is already available, 2 - will annoy training school A as they now have fewer potential students and thus if the model is based on students through a course they’ll lose out on funds…
i think once an ATO sees what is required to maintain the rubber stamp and thumbs up - they’ll certainly not get a queue out of the door of schools offering it.
agreed, read this too quick - i shall edit.
true…but and i admit this is small, creates an admin burden for the pilot to complete something on the off chance they are the pilot chosen for the flying detail of Cadets at the end of the month
I was not thinking of competition to the public funded ACPS (which is very limited numbers), was thinking more of locally subsidized (from non public funds) with instructor willing to give time for free to reduce costs. Could BGS clubs have sent cadets solo in a glider under the old ACTO 35?
I can’t see any flying school offering a train to solo standard for free.
unlike BGA centres which are volunteer run, flight schools are run as businesses where instructors earn a living from and pay the bills with.
Even at “reduced costs” paying for just the instructor (as these people make a living from it) that is still at a guess ~£50-80/hour loss the flying school is making for not charging aircraft time.
but if the school is approved to train and send students solo (with or without a discount) that must in some way be in competition to the Tayside operation. Maybe not in costs, but if Cadets are eligible for the Tayside route, then they are bound to be eligible for other approved routes sending Cadets solo
Given the ACPS is known to have limited numbers, some are likely to be happier to pay some money (perhaps at a reduce cost*) thus there is a reduced appeal to go through the application process for a small chance in getting a place for the ACPS if the same experience (trained to solo standard) is available within county boundaries, or at the very least within country boundaries!
As such it would only be valid in a BGA environment - and perhaps reduced cost could be negotiated but is then taking away from our own back yard of the VGS…although given how slow that has been to get going its difficult to say shooting ourselves in the foot by going down that route - these boards have been alight with call of “why can’t we use the BGA sites?”
under ACTO035 as was there were minimums for pilots to conduct “instructional” flights but there was nothing in ACTO035 indicates at what level these lessons could reach - ie its doesn’t state non-service flights can teach up to and send Cadets solo, nor says cannot send solo. Only that there are two types of flights available, passenger and instructional, and the minimum pilot requirements to class as each.
*maybe a 10-15% discount is agreed rather than only paying for instructor time/aircraft time only
So if we get something similar to ACTO 35 back there might be nothing to prevent training cadets to solo standard and sending first solo?
I am happy to give my time to teach cadets (as are all CFAV) so just aircraft costs and there may be ways of funding subsidy for that.
ACPS numbers are limited. I think 140 courses a year which is about 1.75% of the air cadets in a year group. Of cause not all cadets have the aptitude and motivation for flying training but those that do must be more than 1.75%. Hence more options to train cadets to solo would be good.
I doubt Tayside do it for a warm fuzzy feeling.
No but they are heavily involved with the air
Cadets so will probably do it much cheaper than most.
I’m sure their owner was a VGS OC for many years
And OC D&CS Wing for a bit. It is all on his LinkedIn page.
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didn’t know that bit…
I only really knew Colin Mcrae
Not specified in the experience / levels criteria; had significant input into the gliding aspects as they were originally ignored. After liaising with BGA Chairman & others, suggested differing criteria for the 2 main types of BGA pilot (passenger / instructional), but made them deliberately “light” on the basis that 2FTS would probably toughen things up. Yes they did, but the parameters were more or less as calculated to avoid an over-burden on BGA sites.
One has to assume that in the case of successful solo, they know the cadet covered all the lessons because they didn’t die…
I think that may be assuming too much logic in the ivory towers
looking not just at ACTO035 but the associated forms that came with the copy i have (from 2016) it includes the following
which you’ll notice indicates “to solo Y/N” under the “flight instruction” table, so would seem yes it was possible to have received training from non-Service routes to solo standard.
of course the prevention is that box being ticked…when ACTO035 was in force, only those sites which had been visited by a 2FTS representative to check it out/audit the site was permitted to send cadets in the air, there could be the same restriction on solo activities as/when ACTO035 is reinstated
Thanks Steve that’s interesting.
When ACTO 35 was withdrawn I asked a senior aviation lawyer if there was any way around it. The answer was something like this:
Any cadet can go to their local flight school and pay for flying lessons at the going rate, no ACO involvement.
Any organisation which can raise the funding can offer flying scholarships or bursaries to subsidize flying training for young people. Provided such a scheme is open to the general public we can introduce cadets to it. Thus, for example, we can bring air league scholarships to the attention of cadets and even help with their application.
However, without ACO approval, a civilian organisation could not offer flying scholarships or other flight subsidy exclusively for air cadets.
Not quite sure about that. If I won the lottery I could set up a trust to provide flying scholarships for young people in the RAFAC and there is nothing HQAC could do to prevent that. They could hinder it by refusing to allow C Wings to be worn by those completing it, or preventing it being advertised through official channels, or making it clear that there is no insurance or other liability offered by HQAC but they can’t stop me running the scheme anymore than a school can stop me setting up a trust to pay for extra tutoring for students from that school
none of that surprises me (other than the last paragraph as highlighted by @Farmerdan.
As a Squadron we already bring aviation scholarship/bursary schemes and the link to the attention of the Cadets. Although we have offered to help write applications, we make it clear that it is “a private venture, not linked to the ATC” but the Squadron population is a captive audience of aviation enthused Cadets who are more likely than the rest of their school to actually apply.
Interesting to see that a cadet taking part in a RAFAC event supporting some air display at a flying club ‘won’ a flight over the weekend - Fair play to the civilian pilot for offering the flight, I’m guessing the must have sorted the paperwork and the authority from HQAC out in double time 
