Don’t know if we are saying the same thing but as I have been told
If you are time served and promoted to Flt Lt time served then you stay a Flt Lt
If you are time served but say a Sqn Ldr then after 1st September you would become a Fg Off.
If you are a Flt Lt sqn cdr and entitled to being time served Flt Lt then step down It’s back to Fg off
But we can all agree it needs the final paperwork for clarification
These i am told are incorrect.
Anyone qualifying for time served before 1st September, and changing role/position before OR after the deadline, will remain Flt Lt if they change the role as they qualified for the position of Flt Lt time served (and were appointed to it) before the deadline. You cannot take back something which you have been given.
Well that just makes the aggro of being a squadron commander even less attractive, although it might stop inexperienced officers being put in as or seeking squadron commander posts and we may lose some of the chaff on Wing staff.
How does it reduce the top heavy nature of the ATC if it doesn’t look at our top end and HQs? It’s only a paper exercise for the volunteer ATC given all Officers only ever “achieve” substantive Fg Off and I thought all time served got paid as Fg Offs, so it’s not like the pay bill will be cut. Just like HTD reductions a few years ago, this is an MoD directive being applied to volunteers where it makes no difference whatsoever to the MoD’s figures.
Sorry Prune I don’t quite follow what you are saying.
From the info you received…
a Sqn Cdr who has been an Flt Lt for 6 year and a overall been an officer for 12 years but never been appointed as a time served Flt Lt what would they be if they stood down.
I was told a Fg Off, What were you told??
I’m not going around in circles, it’s quite clear above chap.
The other consideration is would a sqn cdr who stands down stay as a sqn officer or resign their commission, given that the Corps would be unlikely to recognise and in some cases respect their knowledge or experience.
There aren’t enough officers in some Wings to fill the posts as it is, so potentially making people feel like a second-class citizen isn’t likely to be an endearing prospect.
Having read this forum for a number of years on and off, there seems to be among the people who use a blase attitude to people who don’t in their opinion cut the mustard and would see this new move as a good thing.
This may see us move to an ACF model for officers.
Given the lack of officers with experience at the moment, I don’t see a future problem of top heaviness. Change the policy by all means but it won’t fix the problem overnight, nor the immediate future, but it will annoy a lot of people who it won’t necessarily affect.
Gunner experience tells me that just because an announcement was made, that doesn’t make it true.
To make this change requires a re-write of JSP313 and there hasn’t been one. So this announcement purports to override a JSP which of course it can’t.
I know they want to make the change but it does need to be done properly not by HQAC fiat - remember HQAC aren’t in charge of the CCF…
Whatever is said in any manuals or JSPs, I am disitnctly under the impression that there are those within the ACo who make their own rules. How about the recent of promotion of a Fg Off to Sqn Ldr for someone who has a) never been OC of a Sqn for a minimum of 12 months, and b) has never attended a senior officer course at Cranwell. For the last 12 months this officer has been putting his minimum hours by providing a one weekend a month Wing activity, because his domestic and work commitments are outside the Wing and he is unable to attend parade at the Sqn against which he is/was listed.
I have been given statements from various sources inside and out of the ACO to support the theory that the rules of the ACO are bullet proof, unfortunately the above scenario is very real and comes as a reward for being ‘teachers pet’
So how does that align with the original question?
Aries
If you are a Flt Lt Sqn Cdr and have done 9 years you are automatically time-served, it’s not an “extra” promotion, it just is.
2 examples - Flt Lt Sqn Cdr has completed 9 years on 31 August. Steps down as Sqn Cdr on 2 Sep, retains Flt Lt acting unpaid.
Flt Lt Sqn Cdr has done 8 years 364 days on 1 September. Steps down as Sqn Cdr on 2 Sep and becomes Fg Off
Thanks for this,
It is different from what I was told.
If you compare the new ACO system to the rank progression for our regular RAF colleagues then it seems perfectly fair to me. A non graduate ground branch officer would take approx 4 years 2 months to reach Flight Lieutenant (8 months IOT, 6 months Pliot Officer, 36 months Flying Officer).
MB
So how can they be a S/L if they aren’t around much? I take it this is a national or regional role rather than a wing job?
As far as I am aware there is no National or Regional commitment, entirely Wing based. In the beginning the arrangement was to remain on Squadron staff to boost numbers, which would otherwise have shown just ONE adult for 50 Cadets, following a serious exit of CFAVs.
One weekend a month, satisfied the hours criteria to retain commission, as it was likely that the individual would have gone NEP or transferred out of the Wing. But with the Wing also suffering the effects of CFAVs exit, maybe we are now looking at a specific Wing job.
But it still does not explain how you go from Fg Off to Sqn Ldr in just two years, satisfy the rules and get HQAC approval.
It sort of makes a farce of the entire promotion system, which I think everyone sees as essential for running a well disciplined organisation. Next up, Cadets will get 3 stripes as soon as they come through the door.
Aries .
So why not transfer so that he can be nearer to a sqn? But this cannot be an entirely unique situation just down to geography, there must be a number of staff who live and work in one Wing but attend a sqn in another.
This sounds like someone who doesn’t want to be on a squadron or think they are too good to be on a sqn and managed to convince someone. But why they have to be a Sqn Ldr is mystifying.
Maybe they have specific skills which apply to the wing role? Perhaps they are a guru in the media field, or an AFO in the Feds, or run a private dofe company, or an education establishment beacon ?
If that was the case I imagine there are a lot of people on squadrons who are eligible solely by virtue of their professional skills to be Sqn Ldr or higher.
But they aren’t using those skills to be an OC are they.
It would depend on the WSO role - too often there are WSO who are supposedly there to advise and guide squadron commanders who have never commanded a squadron, or worse, were so ineffective at command that they were taken out of command.
To be a truly effective WSO you surely need to have commanded a squadron to a high level AND have a skill set for a WSO role.
The RAF officer cadre work on a rotation of command and staff roles and yes there preogression is generally ONLY upward, I think it would be worth having term limits on Sqn Ldr posts, ( 2 x 5 years etc) so after the limit is up they have to go back to command a squadron for a period of time. A Sqn Ldr who is appointed at 35 might have 25 years as a Sqn Ldr, what real advice can they offer to a squadron commander on running a squadron. I know of wing staff now who have never used SMS
Quite clearly it’s not, or he wouldn’t have asked!!
