Just had this email from my Wg Cdr today with reference to one of one of my members of staff.
I knew it was on the cards, but can’t find anything on SharePoint. Anyone else heard anything and does it affect staff already with the rank/ in post?
“Effective last month (got told by Rgnl Comdt today), promotion to Flt Lt will require 4 years commissioned service. As with SNCOs currently to attain a promotion additional development and responsibilities will have to be undertaken, with 2 yrs service as a Off Cdt/Plt Off and 2 yrs as a Fg Off before becoming eligible for Flt Lt, even if you are a Sqn Cdr.
Time served Flt Lt has also been removed.”
That’s wrong according to Cranwell but the same as our wing…
Cranwell say
If you are a sqn cdr then you are to be promoted to Flt Lt UNPAID until you do your 4 years service.
However for pay it would be 2 years Plt Off and 2 years Fg Off before Flt Lt rate is paid.
It seems regional commandant’s make up their own rules… And personally I don’t get why the pay rate is like this, if your good enough to run a sqn then pay the rate!
Flt Lt promotions based on being time served are being done away with 1st September, but there seems to be some confusion if they are already a Flt Lt do the drop to Fg Off or not or is it for the future
I was talking with a friend from another region and he was telling me a Sqn Ldr in his wing has just stood down as a wing staff officer due to personal problems from wing staff and they dropping him down Fg Off as he’s no longer in a command position and it will be after the 1st September if they did it now he would be time served. That to me is a bit of a slap in the face given his service history, I know what they are trying to achieve but common sense should prevail at times.
This is the information that has been told at ATF for the last year. The official paperwork is meant to come out 1st September.
A colleague done there Sqn Cdrs course as a Fg Off. And had been told the same by wing 4 years until he gets Flt Lt. At the end of the course a Plt Off was promoted to Flt Lt by the ATF staff. He asked discreetly why As he was told it was 4 years and was told that it’s correct for pay not position and the Plt Off’s wing/ region had submitted the paperwork for his promotion to Flt Lt (unpaid) prior to the course on the provision they passed which they did so they promoted him.
I think there needs to be a few kick given so that everyone is playing by the same rules!
With regard to promotion in line with SNCOs
There is a promotion matrix in place, if you can get hold of that it may give more information. I’ve not had to fill it in so not seen it but been told about it.
Incorrect - ACP 20 says the following with regard to Paid Acting Rank:
Irrespective of length of service, an officer filling an established vacancy in the rank of flight
lieutenant or above may be granted the appropriate paid acting rank.
I can fully understand removal of Time Served Flt Lt, but I would tend to disagree that there should be any reason to remove the Paid Acting Rank for someone filling an established post.
I fully get the discussion and decision of the ACMB, in that they want to get rid of the top heavy structure of the Corps, where people retain ranks they are no longer entitled to. But taking the the example of a Sqn Commander…
You make a Plt Off/Fg Off a Sqn Commander. You do so because you feel the individual is capable of running the Sqn, and taking on the responsibility that comes there with.
In a separate conversation, the organisation has decided that Flt Lt is an appropriate rank for a Sqn Cdr.
If the individual has been appointed to run a Sqn, and has successfully completed the SCC, why hold the rank back from them? It creates inequality among Sqn Cdrs and devalues the job they are doing.
As previously stated, I am all for clearing the upper echelons of dead wood, and those holding onto a rank they are not entitled to for dear life. But this doesn’t fit that portfolio, this is denying someone of a rank they are fully entitled to, in the role they are performing.
To clarify my position - I am speaking as someone for whom this change would not effect in the slightest. I am commissioned and have previously reverted to a lower rank upon surrendering a post, which was fully justified and I was happy to do. I would, however, have been miffed if upon completion of SCC I was told that despite running a successful Sqn, and dealing with all the associated issues, It was felt that I was less worthy of the rank than the Sqn Cdr down the road… The rank is not everything, but the disparity in rank compared to someone doing exactly the same job could create ill feeling.
I agree - perhaps my term ‘top heavy’ was ill deployed.
But in essence, I meant the same thing. A rank appropriate to the role - i.e. a Sqn Cdr stepping down (regardless of time served) should revert to Fg Off if still serving on a Sqn, to keep a clear CoC.
I agree with all points however there still needs to be a common sense approach not a 1 size fits all to rank…
more and more sqns have a SNCO as a sqn cdr so should they get a promotion to say WO if not already on completion of SSC?? When I did my SSC there was a WO in charge but in there sqn was 1 Flt Lt and 2 Fg Off’s who would not take charge of the sqn
What happens there?? Do the officers get kicked out the corps or busted to CI (next nearest sqn 90minutes away) this then leaves the WO with only a CI at the sqn.
We have 2 poorly led sqns in our wing with a Flt Lt’s in charge both passed SSC both “top of the class” but they have a Fg off (ex Flt Lt OC stood down due to work changes only 8years time served as Flt lt.) going between on her nights off helping to “mentor” them as it is them that are the issue should she not be a Flt Lt and the other 2 Fg Off until they make the cut
I have probably picked 2 awkward situations but there does need to be a bit of flexibility in what ever system they bring in…
Flexibility I agree with. But not sure I agree with this, that they shouldn’t be Flt Lts. Despite the fact they are being mentored, the buck ultimately stops with them. If there’s a H&S issue or accident, its down to the RAs etc that they, as a Sqn Cdr, authorised. Commensurate with that responsibility should be appropriate rank. As for her being a Flt Lt, I don’t feel that it matters as her position as a mentor. When I first took up post as a Sqn Cdr, the person I turned to for most advice and honest opinions was a CI on the Sqn, because he quickly showed himself to have a huge wealth of knowledge and an honest sounding board. Actually, the mentoring should ‘officially’ be done by a Sector Cdr or similar (that’s not to say the ex-OCs advice won’t be invaluable - it will, but it shouldn’t officially be her job to mentor them)
let’s be honest any good officer would ask for help and advice from any source then make a call
Based on this knowledge…
Knowing the Fg Off and the 2 Flt Lt’s is probably clouds my judgement of what is going on and why she needs to be a Flt Lt to get through to them but I take your point.
The WSOs are involved so if she isn’t down then they are
Are they saying that time served Flt Lt has gone completely and that the only way to get Flt Lt is to fill a Flt Lt billet AND serve 4 years & fulfil criteria,
or
Time served Flt Lt is now after 2 years as Fg Off, but now has conditions attached - and billet-related Flt Lt rank is now no longer a thing?
If this is relevant, there’s a general move across the cadet forces to get rid of time served ranks. The Army are particularly keen on it. I suspect they will have abolished my promotion to Wg Cdr before I qualify for it (2023…)
We were told at an Area meeting earlier this year that time served promotions to Wg Cdr had been abolished. Sqn Ldr is now the highest rank any CCF(RAF) officer can achieve.