Ok, so I may come across as arrogant or narcissistic during this. I apologize if i do,its not my intention. But anyway…
So I have been at my squadron for 3 years and a bit now. I have been on 2 annual camps and I have managed to get corps marksman, and am also a senior cadet, almost master. I have also done the jnco course, and have done an arms drill course. I consider myself semi-experienced, and have wanted to do JL since i started. Obviously one must be an nco to do this. But here is where the issues start. In my squadron, there are 2 circles-Those who know the CO and staff, and the rest of us. There is absolute favouritism, and is impossible to get promoted if not in this circle. But if you are, promotions are guaranteed after about 9 months. As you can imagine, the JNCO’s are pitiful in all aspects. If you were to come to my squadron at break, you would witness something out of an 80’s american high school drama. There are 2 groups in opposite corners; the Inner circle, consisting of NCO’s and cadets that know the NCO’s, and then the rest of us, about 6. The inner circle members rarely interact with anyone outside, and I am talking about corporals who are meant to be helping other cadets. Once, I was asked by a staff member to ask a particular Corporal for information about wing training day. When I asked her, she looked at me as if I had just drop kicked a baby, and literally told me ‘Ask someone else,I am busy.’ Last time I checked, Squadron matters would seem to take importance over gossiping who their cousin crackhead pulled during the weekend, but apparently not. One of these corporals actually once didn’t know how to form up the squadron at first parade, and had to get myself to take it. Talking to the CO has no effect,as he basically just makes some excuse about my uniform (which has been no less than a 9 for 2 months) and says try harder. And 90% of the time,it is me telling cadets to be quiet, or helping with their uniform rather than the NCO’s, and the CO has seen it himself. While I am not trying to show off, I do believe that I deserve promotion, and many of the current NCO’s do not. It has gotten to the point where I would have certainly moved squadron, but none are close enough, so i have no choice but to leave and join marine cadets (my closest other cadet detachment) or continue being pushed down by my Squadron and possibly age out before getting promoted and never be able to do JL. Sorry for the long post and thanks for reading. Any help is appreciated. 
You write in a manner which exceeds your apparent age. Is this a trap…
What do you mean mate?
Are you actually a cadet.
Lol yes, why? I suppose its a compliment really…
If you choose to take it that way. Try writing a letter to your OC. You have a way with words
Seeing as Ive already brought it up with him more than a few times, wouldn’t this just annoy him more? Are there any other contacts i can use?
The OC is the one who appoints the NCOs. Going around him to a Wing Staff Officer isn’t going to build a conducive working relationship i’m afraid. Are there other staff on the unit you can discuss the situation with? Have you asked the OC for a list of possible courses you ould do, or some constructive feedback on how you can “improve” to be in a position for promotion.
Life isn’t fair and sort of thing you say happens everywhere, work, clubs, political movements you name it happens in them and you do one of two things, get on with it or move on. I saw it on my CWC and I’ve seen the Wing cliques operate, with people getting into positions way beyond the capability.
Where I work playing golf, squash and badminton have all been precursors to unlikely promotions and then there are the women who get promoted out of nowhere. Being in the funny handshake mob has been advantageous to getting promoted.
As I say get over it or move on and there is old adage if you can’t beat them join them. Complaining doesn’t make you a better candidate or prospect.
Wow… Jack (I’m assuming its Jack based on your login), that’s a lot of frustration hidden away there!
Lets try and unpick this little bit… Firstly I would commend you on your perseverance, you have clearly done plenty of things as a cadet and I hope you feel like you have got a lot back. Corps Marksman, nearly a master cadet, JNCO course together with an arms drill course and 2 camps are all real achievements so well done. All of these things will help you in more ways than you can imagine right now and I’m sure you will look back a feel a sense of satisfaction and achievement in years to come.
Lets not lose sight about the structure of the Squadron. The CO is the person in charge and that individual is responsible for everyone and everything that happens. This is a fact of life and there will be some that benefit and some that don’t. I’m not saying that all decisions are right but, as a member of the Squadron, you have to follow orders and be part of the team to move forward. By asking for promotion you are, in effect, telling the boss he/she has got it wrong and this will exasperate the situation further.
I probably have more questions than answers for you right now as its hard to build a picture when, on the face of it, there are so many things wrong. If I had a pound for every cadet that said they deserved promotion I would be a rich man! promotions are always difficult and there are always winners and then the ones that feel like they have been left behind.
In situations like this, you need to talk this through with someone, have a rant and then focus in on what is really important. It sounds like there are lots of little issues all combining to be a big problem and no matter how hard you try its coming across the wrong way. Over a forum this is next to impossible but your posting was a rant so to speak :-).
Here’s some questions to get started:
- Out of interest, did you raise this issue at the JNCO course?
- What was your feedback from the JNCO course?
- What’s your parents take on this?
- If you were promoted tomorrow what would be different for you?
I would be interested in your answer to one other question… “why are you in the ATC?”. Don’t take this question as a negative and ignore the issues around promotion. I’m curious to know your motivation for being a cadet.
Hi, thanks for the detailed response.
-I did my JNCO Course nearly 2 years ago (on instruction from CO, thought i was going to be cpl), so I didn’t have this issue at that point.
-My general feedback was not being loud or firm enough with other cadets, as I am a fairly relaxed person. However, I have tried to improve this and be a bit more strict when needed. Also, keep in mind corporals in my sqn are rarely assertive, as they get one of the sgts to do the dirty work.
-I haven’t really asked my parents. To them, I have added a bunch of stuff to my CV due to cadets, so they aren’t really bothered about whether i am getting promoted. I will ask them tonight though.
-If I was promoted tommorow, I think I could genuinely make a huge difference. I can properly start preparing for JL, and also hopefully help the squadron and fellow cadets who are being overlooked by the other NCO’s.
-I initially joined the ATC because I always liked the idea of being in the military, more specifically as infantry. However, the ACF platoon (is that what theyre called?) in my town is a bit, ummm, underfunded, and most cadets leave out of pure frustration. I realised that the ATC offered many of the same activities, and they had nicer uniforms. As of now, my main motivation to stay in the ATC is JL, but I do really enjoy annual camps. Although I have had a bit of a moan about the ATC, I do enjoy cadets a lot, even if I have the organisation against me.
Hope that answers them.
And irrelevant but my name isn’t jack haha, Jack3d was a bodybuilding supplement, and the first thing that came to my head for a username, sorry for the confusion.
So bodybuilding Jack… I’m going to stick with jack as it helps to have a name of sorts :-). For Jack read "insert name here’.
Some of this you may not like but stick with me and take the feedback in the way its intended i.e I’m just trying to help you go in the right direction.
Looking at this from 35,000 feet and not knowing you or your Squadron’s ethos, make up and at the same time, making sure I don’t openly criticise anyone here goes.
I would like to start by replaying back to you what I hear:
To me you’re getting a lot out of the ATC, your focus is on being promoted and going on the JL course. Your frustrated because you feel you could be doing a better job than the NCO’s in post and you’re struggling to penetrate the “in crowd”. There is a perception that being in the “in crowd” means promotion and therefore you think you will time expire before getting that Cpl promotion and JL course.
None of that should be new news for you!
What I’m not sure about is your comment about how things will be different if you were promoted. This is a tough one because its hard to prove before the event however, I would get you to consider what would actually be different. By this I mean, if your not in the in crowd now why do you think it will be different if you were promoted? The characters at play are still the same people and I do wonder whether you have a hidden desire to be in the “in crowd” and you see promotion as a way in. Jack, I’m not trying to bash you here, just say some things that make you think.
One of the biggest things about the ATC and, in particular, being an NCO, is teamwork. A Squadron will really struggle if there are different factions and the NCO’s need to work well together. For this to happen there needs to be some consistency and leadership. If you were promoted tomorrow you’re not going to change the Squadron straight away and, as an individual, this would be really hard.
Some things stand out from what you say… your feedback from the JNCO course is most probably fair and that you’re seen on the Squadron as the quiet and laid back one who doesn’t mind either way whether he gets promoted. Also “corporals in my sqn are rarely assertive, as they get one of the sgts to do the dirty work”… that is an interesting concept where Cpl’s are telling Sgt’s to do things :-)… (I will say no more).
What to do…
Taking everything I know about your situation and obviously only getting one side of the picture I would say this…
I think your best plan is to do what you probably feel most uncomfortable doing, that being, approaching the CO. This is actually on the basis that you have nothing to lose…
Before you rush in bashing down his or her door consider this…
The CO is the boss and therefore your approach needs to be planned and presented in a mature, professional and respectful way that elicits some feedback and a desire to help. It is NOT your divine right to be an NCO so you are asking for his / her help to get you there.
The initial approach is important and my preference would be to coach you before hand however, this posting will have to do.
Hopefully you have heard of the “7 P’s”… “Prior Planning and Preparation Prevents Piddly Poor Performance” (I changed number 5 to Piddly). I’m saying that you need to be clear in your mind what you’re asking for and, how to go about it, before stepping foot in to the boss’s office.
I would go to the CO and say something like “Sir / Marm, would it be possible to get about 15 minutes of your time as I need to talk to you about something”. Follow this straight away with something like “it doesn’t have to be this evening and I could come early or stay late if it helps”. You will most likely get a response like “what’s it for”, if this is asked simply say “its a personal matter but quite important for me”.
By now you will have his or her attention and hopefully a time will be arranged. Depending on the situation, you may even get that 15 minutes straight away so don’t panic but remember to say thank you etc.
When you get your 15 minutes the intro will need to be concise and to the point. I would suggest something like “Sir / Marm, I’m hoping you can help me… as you know I have been on the Squadron for (insert number here) years, I enjoy my time in the Corps and get a lot out it” slight pause “Where I need your help is gaining some feedback and guidance on what I actually need to do for the Squadron to consider me for promotion”. Now wait… I can’t tell you what will come back but if you get “try harder” then I would suggest something like “Thank you Sir / Marm, could you expand a bit more on that because I had this feedback before and I really need a good steer, based on your experience, on what I need to do?”. You can also slip in your desire to have more input in to the Squadron and how much you would like to do a JL course.
Hopefully you can see where this is going, your being respectful and asking for the CO’s experience to point you in the right direction. This approach is non confrontational, will change the balance of how you see the CO and hopefully how he / she see’s you.
You could talk this through with your parents, hopefully you spoke to them about this before.
Good luck, let me know how you get on.
There is nothing wrong with being relaxed. You can be forceful in a quiet way and be more effective. There is a culture in the ATC that everyone has to be a Sgt Major Williamsesque (It Ain’t 'Alf Hot Mum) character when they are NCOs, which is BS.
My dad rarely shouted at us and instead talked to us about what we had done and why it was wrong, we didn’t go unpunished mind you. On more than one occasion we were made to apologise to people our actions affected … a most humbling and embarrassing experience and you made sure you didn’t do it again. His favourite was padlocking our bikes so we couldn’t use them, which was a disaster a bit like having your phone being taken away. Years later I asked him about this and he said to me there was no point in getting wound up and shouting as it leaves you nowhere to go and making us apologise was meant to embarrass us and locking our bikes was meant to inconvenience us. I followed his example from being a Cpl to CWO to AWO to Sqn Cdr (as well as being a parent) and now I will sit cadets down and talk about why they do things and it amuses me to hear NCOs shouting and then shouting the same a bit later and getting nowhere.
If you’re meant to be an NCO you will be and if not you won’t.
Hi, sorry for the late reply, website wasn’t letting me log on. I will be speaking to my CO on Tuesday, as agreed with him, I will let you know how I got on. Thanks again for the detailed response, I actually feel a bit guilty for taking up so much of your time haha.
That is very true, a squadron run on respect is better than a squadron run on fear
Don’t worry about the time Jack, happy to help. Good luck on Tuesday.
Only time anyone shouts is to tell the rowdy lot to shut up cos we have a fair few cadets which can get noisy. How did you get on with speaking to your CO?
I’m not getting that. He writes like many his age. Using ‘So’ at the beginning of a paragraph. Awful.